1 00:01:04,310 --> 00:00:17,840 [Music] 2 00:01:06,530 --> 00:01:04,320 and good evening from Philadelphia Frank 3 00:01:10,010 --> 00:01:06,540 here with yet another episode a 4 00:01:12,590 --> 00:01:10,020 quarantine episode of UFO news network 5 00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:12,600 Sunday we've got a special guest for you 6 00:01:18,649 --> 00:01:15,330 this evening and let me go over to my 7 00:01:21,320 --> 00:01:18,659 co-host to introduce him chant Hannah as 8 00:01:23,749 --> 00:01:21,330 always chant how are you tonight I'm 9 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:23,759 doing well Frank thank you so much we 10 00:01:27,620 --> 00:01:25,710 have a wonderful person on the show 11 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:27,630 tonight he's an iconic researcher 12 00:01:31,790 --> 00:01:29,250 everybody knows him he's also a dear 13 00:01:33,290 --> 00:01:31,800 friend of both of ours Paul Dean I'd 14 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:33,300 like to go ahead and just give a longer 15 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:36,330 bio for him because you know he's done 16 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:38,970 quite a lot of work regarding the topic 17 00:01:44,359 --> 00:01:41,850 of ufology and other topics that are 18 00:01:46,310 --> 00:01:44,369 meaningful to all of us Paul Dean is an 19 00:01:47,990 --> 00:01:46,320 Australian researcher who focuses on 20 00:01:50,450 --> 00:01:48,000 government and military involvement and 21 00:01:53,180 --> 00:01:50,460 response to the so called UFO phenomena 22 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:53,190 working alone for 20 years Paul became 23 00:01:58,520 --> 00:01:55,890 an expert in regards to so-called UFO 24 00:02:00,320 --> 00:01:58,530 FILES six years ago he began tackling 25 00:02:01,910 --> 00:02:00,330 the problem directly and became 26 00:02:03,949 --> 00:02:01,920 instrumental in seeing that the 27 00:02:06,109 --> 00:02:03,959 Australian government release here 28 00:02:08,359 --> 00:02:06,119 though classified files from the Royal 29 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:08,369 Australian Air Force Air Services 30 00:02:12,620 --> 00:02:10,110 Australia the Australian Transport 31 00:02:15,949 --> 00:02:12,630 Safety Bureau and the National Archives 32 00:02:18,140 --> 00:02:15,959 of Australia he works extensively with 33 00:02:20,869 --> 00:02:18,150 Australian based researcher Keith pastor 34 00:02:24,770 --> 00:02:20,879 field on UFO case analysis and the 35 00:02:26,330 --> 00:02:24,780 preservation of UFO related records Paul 36 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:26,340 Dean and his team used the Freedom of 37 00:02:30,500 --> 00:02:28,770 Information Act FOIA us to obtain 38 00:02:32,930 --> 00:02:30,510 records and is hot on the trail of 39 00:02:35,270 --> 00:02:32,940 hundreds of never-before-seen classified 40 00:02:37,610 --> 00:02:35,280 military files recent discoveries 41 00:02:39,339 --> 00:02:37,620 include UFO sighting reports created 42 00:02:41,750 --> 00:02:39,349 during the Vietnam War and 43 00:02:43,699 --> 00:02:41,760 administrative records related to a pair 44 00:02:46,729 --> 00:02:43,709 of highly classified UFO tracking 45 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:46,739 programs which were ran by the US Army 46 00:02:52,699 --> 00:02:50,010 and the US Air Force during America's 47 00:02:54,470 --> 00:02:52,709 involvement in Vietnam other fresh finds 48 00:02:56,809 --> 00:02:54,480 include federal bureau of investigation 49 00:02:59,300 --> 00:02:56,819 records related to the interrogation of 50 00:03:01,490 --> 00:02:59,310 UFO researchers in the 70s and a current 51 00:03:03,860 --> 00:03:01,500 Federal Aviation Administration system 52 00:03:07,220 --> 00:03:03,870 for logging military intercepts of 53 00:03:09,979 --> 00:03:07,230 unknown objects in America's airspace 54 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:09,989 Paul has also began requesting UFO 55 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:12,690 records from the U 56 00:03:17,510 --> 00:03:15,330 as Air Force's Space Command which will 57 00:03:20,450 --> 00:03:17,520 include fouls from the 21st Space Wing 58 00:03:22,580 --> 00:03:20,460 and the vital joint functional component 59 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:22,590 Center for space at Vanderburgh Air 60 00:03:26,630 --> 00:03:25,770 Force Base working on a daily basis with 61 00:03:28,730 --> 00:03:26,640 boston-based 62 00:03:30,950 --> 00:03:28,740 archivist and historian Barry Greenwood 63 00:03:33,710 --> 00:03:30,960 Paul believes there are likely hundreds 64 00:03:36,290 --> 00:03:33,720 of thousands of UFO records still held 65 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:36,300 by elements of the US government and 66 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:38,250 works tirelessly to source their 67 00:03:44,060 --> 00:03:40,770 location and availability status all in 68 00:03:46,610 --> 00:03:44,070 all Paul has acquired a total of 240 69 00:03:48,740 --> 00:03:46,620 thousand pages of UFO related government 70 00:03:51,370 --> 00:03:48,750 and military records from around the 71 00:03:53,900 --> 00:03:51,380 world and tens of millions of pages of 72 00:03:56,330 --> 00:03:53,910 non-government UFO records including 73 00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:56,340 books newsletters monographs newspaper 74 00:04:00,440 --> 00:03:58,050 articles case studies letters and 75 00:04:02,540 --> 00:04:00,450 magazine articles Paul welcome to our 76 00:04:04,490 --> 00:04:02,550 show again we've had you on many times 77 00:04:08,140 --> 00:04:04,500 and we enjoy having you thank you for 78 00:04:11,510 --> 00:04:08,150 being on the show tonight thank you I 79 00:04:13,130 --> 00:04:11,520 wanted to ask you about a little bit 80 00:04:15,260 --> 00:04:13,140 about the definitive history regarding 81 00:04:17,930 --> 00:04:15,270 the ballistic missile early warning 82 00:04:21,340 --> 00:04:17,940 system could you please cover that topic 83 00:04:24,020 --> 00:04:21,350 I know it goes from the u.s. to the UK 84 00:04:26,659 --> 00:04:24,030 maybe gloss over that with us for a 85 00:04:29,659 --> 00:04:26,669 little bit yeah 86 00:04:31,870 --> 00:04:29,669 so so one thing that UFO researchers 87 00:04:35,110 --> 00:04:31,880 don't do anywhere near enough of is 88 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:35,120 study the operational capacity and 89 00:04:40,130 --> 00:04:38,250 capability in a history of the actual 90 00:04:43,159 --> 00:04:40,140 sights like the actual sights and 91 00:04:45,830 --> 00:04:43,169 systems and facilities and squadrons and 92 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:45,840 battalions and whatever that that are 93 00:04:50,030 --> 00:04:48,330 responsible for aerospace detection and 94 00:04:53,780 --> 00:04:50,040 tracking of objects in the atmosphere 95 00:04:57,380 --> 00:04:53,790 and space verification of real objects 96 00:05:00,860 --> 00:04:57,390 versus like fake returns or radar 97 00:05:02,570 --> 00:05:00,870 clutter or whatever and one of the one 98 00:05:05,690 --> 00:05:02,580 of the one of the most potent and 99 00:05:09,409 --> 00:05:05,700 capable and legacy systems we have to 100 00:05:11,570 --> 00:05:09,419 look at period is the it's a it's a 101 00:05:13,780 --> 00:05:11,580 system it's a system called the 102 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:13,790 ballistic missile early warning system 103 00:05:22,909 --> 00:05:18,210 and it's it was it was developed by the 104 00:05:24,469 --> 00:05:22,919 9th aerospace that they gave them not 105 00:05:25,740 --> 00:05:24,479 their I suppose division the NORAD 106 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:25,750 missile warning 107 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:35,110 universities and think tanks and what it 108 00:05:42,810 --> 00:05:38,530 is it's a it's a try site that's three 109 00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:42,820 sites around the world one is in clear 110 00:05:48,270 --> 00:05:46,000 in Alaska the another one the second one 111 00:05:51,780 --> 00:05:48,280 is in fool at fool Air Station in 112 00:05:54,780 --> 00:05:51,790 Greenland and the third site is actually 113 00:05:59,640 --> 00:05:54,790 on on the east coast of England none in 114 00:06:01,409 --> 00:05:59,650 North look she and is these three sites 115 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:01,419 what their what their job is what their 116 00:06:07,260 --> 00:06:02,890 job is always been since the early 117 00:06:09,450 --> 00:06:07,270 sixties is to they will it that these 118 00:06:11,730 --> 00:06:09,460 three sites have have have have a 119 00:06:15,330 --> 00:06:11,740 primary mission and a secondary mission 120 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:15,340 the primary mission is is missile 121 00:06:20,909 --> 00:06:18,610 warning or missile launch warning or 122 00:06:22,620 --> 00:06:20,919 missile a missile detection and tracking 123 00:06:24,390 --> 00:06:22,630 an impact prediction and so on and what 124 00:06:25,740 --> 00:06:24,400 the what being being all in a northern 125 00:06:30,780 --> 00:06:25,750 hemisphere what these three facilities 126 00:06:33,450 --> 00:06:30,790 do up until today still now is they they 127 00:06:36,390 --> 00:06:33,460 have these unbelievably powerful radar 128 00:06:39,990 --> 00:06:36,400 as the synthetic aperture trackball scan 129 00:06:42,930 --> 00:06:40,000 radars that can that can see for one of 130 00:06:45,060 --> 00:06:42,940 a better word at 3,000 miles into space 131 00:06:48,180 --> 00:06:45,070 on a pretty sharp angle and what they're 132 00:06:49,940 --> 00:06:48,190 looking for in primary mode primary mode 133 00:06:53,250 --> 00:06:49,950 what they've always looked for is 134 00:06:55,530 --> 00:06:53,260 missiles like as in nuclear missiles and 135 00:06:56,850 --> 00:06:55,540 not just one but they can track as many 136 00:06:59,040 --> 00:06:56,860 as you know two or three hundred at a 137 00:07:01,590 --> 00:06:59,050 time they're looking for missiles that 138 00:07:03,870 --> 00:07:01,600 have originated from the oceans like 139 00:07:05,850 --> 00:07:03,880 from submarines or ships around the at 140 00:07:07,980 --> 00:07:05,860 the old Soviet Union or current Russia 141 00:07:09,900 --> 00:07:07,990 and they're looking for intercontinental 142 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:09,910 ballistic missiles which have originated 143 00:07:14,490 --> 00:07:12,130 from northern China Central Russia 144 00:07:17,820 --> 00:07:14,500 northern Russia back in the old days 145 00:07:20,390 --> 00:07:17,830 maybe East Germany or Poland so 146 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:20,400 basically their primary mission is to 147 00:07:26,820 --> 00:07:23,290 constantly search the skies 24 hours a 148 00:07:28,530 --> 00:07:26,830 day looking for objects which look which 149 00:07:31,650 --> 00:07:28,540 fit the parameters of missiles that's 150 00:07:34,110 --> 00:07:31,660 fast-moving independent non maneuverable 151 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:34,120 objects that that come up from the 152 00:07:38,820 --> 00:07:37,330 ground at very shallow angles means 153 00:07:40,830 --> 00:07:38,830 perpendicular to a surfer 154 00:07:43,020 --> 00:07:40,840 and then you know make a bit of a 155 00:07:45,089 --> 00:07:43,030 right-hand turn and head towards England 156 00:07:47,909 --> 00:07:45,099 Scotland the United States or Canada so 157 00:07:50,820 --> 00:07:47,919 they this is frontline missile warning 158 00:07:53,129 --> 00:07:50,830 like this is this is as soon as objects 159 00:07:55,890 --> 00:07:53,139 or an object is detected that fits the 160 00:07:57,869 --> 00:07:55,900 parameters of a missile these three 161 00:08:01,110 --> 00:07:57,879 sites in Alaska Greenland in England 162 00:08:04,860 --> 00:08:01,120 they automatically they automatically 163 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:04,870 send data to swell to over the years the 164 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:06,490 Aerospace Defense Command and all the 165 00:08:14,300 --> 00:08:11,710 air Paul you're breaking up a little bit 166 00:08:19,290 --> 00:08:14,310 but just to jump in really quick 167 00:08:20,459 --> 00:08:19,300 basically yeah that was in the back go 168 00:08:23,820 --> 00:08:20,469 ahead go ahead you're breaking up Paul 169 00:08:25,529 --> 00:08:23,830 yeah can you hear me yeah I can hear you 170 00:08:27,420 --> 00:08:25,539 now but I was just telling the folks 171 00:08:31,379 --> 00:08:27,430 that really the reason why they're 172 00:08:32,819 --> 00:08:31,389 located so in such northern latitudes is 173 00:08:34,589 --> 00:08:32,829 because basically that's the shortest 174 00:08:38,639 --> 00:08:34,599 path for missiles to get from the old 175 00:08:42,209 --> 00:08:38,649 Soviet Union yeah yes so Soviet and 176 00:08:43,620 --> 00:08:42,219 polish missiles that are hitting over 177 00:08:48,660 --> 00:08:43,630 the poles to Canada or the United States 178 00:08:49,980 --> 00:08:48,670 or Scotland they they're the we want to 179 00:08:52,139 --> 00:08:49,990 detect them there's no point having the 180 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:52,149 facility demo in Antarctica it's it's 181 00:08:56,670 --> 00:08:54,250 its it dictate that this these sites are 182 00:08:58,410 --> 00:08:56,680 responsible for missile warning for 183 00:09:00,810 --> 00:08:58,420 North America and Western Europe and 184 00:09:02,940 --> 00:09:00,820 that's in primary mode this secondary 185 00:09:05,819 --> 00:09:02,950 they said these radar systems are so 186 00:09:07,290 --> 00:09:05,829 powerful that in they have a secondary 187 00:09:09,829 --> 00:09:07,300 capability it's called 188 00:09:12,389 --> 00:09:09,839 Space Surveillance and that simply means 189 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:12,399 the detection tracking and 190 00:09:17,190 --> 00:09:14,770 identification of objects in low-earth 191 00:09:19,380 --> 00:09:17,200 low-earth orbits so that's satellite 192 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:19,390 satellite junk rocket boosters the odd 193 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:23,050 asteroid whatever so so basically the 194 00:09:27,780 --> 00:09:26,290 thule clear and falling dale site the 195 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:27,790 flatter one file in thousand england 196 00:09:33,060 --> 00:09:29,890 their job is in primary mode is missile 197 00:09:36,060 --> 00:09:33,070 warning and in secondary mode is is to 198 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:36,070 is to detect and track satellites which 199 00:09:40,410 --> 00:09:38,410 which should conform to the satellite or 200 00:09:42,750 --> 00:09:40,420 space object catalog and every now and 201 00:09:43,889 --> 00:09:42,760 again they will pick up a new object in 202 00:09:46,110 --> 00:09:43,899 space that they've never seen before 203 00:09:47,790 --> 00:09:46,120 like a might be part of a new foreign 204 00:09:49,230 --> 00:09:47,800 launch or it might be a piece of space 205 00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:49,240 debris that's broken off from another 206 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:51,040 piece of space debris that they've never 207 00:09:54,550 --> 00:09:51,930 tagged or 208 00:09:58,579 --> 00:09:54,560 so far before but so basically these 209 00:10:00,380 --> 00:09:58,589 these three sites look northward north 210 00:10:01,910 --> 00:10:00,390 over the poles just looking for anything 211 00:10:04,370 --> 00:10:01,920 that's in the upper atmosphere and in 212 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:04,380 and and out into space that's basically 213 00:10:11,389 --> 00:10:09,570 what they do yep okay thank you very 214 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:11,399 much for having covered that I wanted to 215 00:10:15,139 --> 00:10:12,930 ask you a little bit about an 216 00:10:16,940 --> 00:10:15,149 interesting a situation occurred to you 217 00:10:21,590 --> 00:10:16,950 while you were actually requesting 218 00:10:22,820 --> 00:10:21,600 information from the UK and I I we 219 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:22,830 talked about this a little earlier 220 00:10:27,769 --> 00:10:25,170 before before the show it sounds like 221 00:10:30,019 --> 00:10:27,779 you were actually kind of fighting with 222 00:10:33,139 --> 00:10:30,029 him I use that term loosely by the way 223 00:10:35,410 --> 00:10:33,149 with the British government on the topic 224 00:10:39,340 --> 00:10:35,420 of the ballistic missile early warning 225 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:39,350 system and when you actually fired them 226 00:10:45,579 --> 00:10:42,450 you asked them specifically about that 227 00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:45,589 topic and then they came back bizarrely 228 00:10:50,210 --> 00:10:47,760 didn't argue on that 229 00:10:53,660 --> 00:10:50,220 but but the bizarre part was that they 230 00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:53,670 touched on the topic of UFOs and the et 231 00:11:00,920 --> 00:10:56,240 topic can you please fill us in on that 232 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:00,930 yeah now this was bizarre I I have been 233 00:11:07,820 --> 00:11:04,890 studying space object and missile object 234 00:11:10,340 --> 00:11:07,830 and atmospheric detection issues for 20 235 00:11:13,340 --> 00:11:10,350 years and so obviously one of the best 236 00:11:15,519 --> 00:11:13,350 places to to go is the ballistic missile 237 00:11:19,630 --> 00:11:15,529 early warning system now in America at 238 00:11:22,370 --> 00:11:19,640 the sites in Alaska and Greenland are a 239 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:22,380 run by the 13th and 12th missile warning 240 00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:25,170 squadron respectively but England's are 241 00:11:30,199 --> 00:11:28,350 be different so England being at an 242 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:30,209 international site between the US Air 243 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:32,130 Force and England's royal air force 244 00:11:36,650 --> 00:11:34,650 England's England's ballistic missile 245 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:36,660 early warning systems site which is 246 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:41,250 called RAF filing nails huge place it's 247 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:44,970 it reports administratively to the Royal 248 00:12:01,970 --> 00:12:00,230 a British Ministry of Defence sorry Air 249 00:12:05,810 --> 00:12:01,980 Force Space Command headquarters and in 250 00:12:07,819 --> 00:12:05,820 England data is supplied to the space 251 00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:07,829 warning service and and and various 252 00:12:11,569 --> 00:12:09,510 other cells within England so this is 253 00:12:14,569 --> 00:12:11,579 truly an international site the reason I 254 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:14,579 wanted to I wanted to ask the RAF 255 00:12:19,310 --> 00:12:17,730 fouling dolls I run into us are someone 256 00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:19,320 whether it be the US Air Force or the 257 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:22,560 Royal Air Force an Eton and for for 258 00:12:27,259 --> 00:12:24,510 material like reports and electronic 259 00:12:29,180 --> 00:12:27,269 forms about object detection and now I 260 00:12:31,819 --> 00:12:29,190 had two choices I could go to the US Air 261 00:12:33,199 --> 00:12:31,829 Force for RAF filing Dal's material or I 262 00:12:34,850 --> 00:12:33,209 could go to the British Ministry of 263 00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:34,860 Defence for rap filing Dal's material 264 00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:36,839 the reason I picked the Ministry of 265 00:12:41,660 --> 00:12:40,110 Defence is because there foi Department 266 00:12:43,939 --> 00:12:41,670 their Freedom of Information request 267 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:43,949 Department is very streamlined it's 268 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:47,250 quick they're honest they're they they 269 00:12:52,009 --> 00:12:49,290 they don't lose if I were I request like 270 00:12:57,050 --> 00:12:52,019 the Americans do so what I did I went to 271 00:12:59,870 --> 00:12:57,060 in um in now June 2017 I went to the the 272 00:13:01,519 --> 00:12:59,880 British Ministry of Defence and I asked 273 00:13:12,740 --> 00:13:01,529 and I'll write out my actual request 274 00:13:15,230 --> 00:13:12,750 right I asked for copies of records well 275 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:15,240 is the detection for a falling dolls 276 00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:17,490 specifically I wish to be furnished with 277 00:13:21,620 --> 00:13:18,959 copies of actual detections and 278 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:21,630 Tracking's which may include electronic 279 00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:23,370 forms electronic reports 280 00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:25,920 automated pictorials etc which are 281 00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:28,230 created by the system a Trevor systems 282 00:13:34,460 --> 00:13:30,480 at RAF following girls blah blah blah 283 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:34,470 now I got an acknowledgement at the end 284 00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:36,810 of month from the British Ministry of 285 00:13:46,850 --> 00:13:43,529 Defence a ashen right turn later on the 286 00:13:48,829 --> 00:13:46,860 5th of July 2017 so about a month after 287 00:13:54,379 --> 00:13:48,839 I submitted by if I want request by 288 00:13:57,889 --> 00:13:54,389 God's eye I got an email the very mouth 289 00:14:02,600 --> 00:13:57,899 from a command Secretariat of the Royal 290 00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:02,610 Air Command accorded and well most of 291 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:03,920 what its it 292 00:14:12,699 --> 00:14:07,250 it said I have searched our records for 293 00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:12,709 the information for and I can confirm 294 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:14,240 that the Ministry of Defense holds 295 00:14:18,730 --> 00:14:16,490 information in the skopic you'll request 296 00:14:20,319 --> 00:14:18,740 formation relates to matters pertinent 297 00:14:22,509 --> 00:14:20,329 to the defense of the United Kingdom and 298 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:22,519 not to any so-called extraterrestrial 299 00:14:31,210 --> 00:14:29,510 life then it goes on discussing we've 300 00:14:33,130 --> 00:14:31,220 got with with with retrieving data and 301 00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:33,140 so on and then it says I'm wishing to 302 00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:34,880 I'm writing to advise you that it would 303 00:14:38,530 --> 00:14:37,070 take considerably longer than 3.5 304 00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:38,540 working days to provide you with 305 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:41,510 information blah blah blah unfortunately 306 00:14:45,550 --> 00:14:43,370 in this instance I am unable to offer 307 00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:45,560 you any advice on how you may refine 308 00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:47,600 your requests in a way that would enable 309 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:50,000 the Emoji to provide you with response 310 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:51,890 and then it goes on with more 311 00:14:58,060 --> 00:14:55,250 administrative stuff anyway finally it 312 00:15:00,840 --> 00:14:58,070 says as you would expect the mo D has a 313 00:15:03,009 --> 00:15:00,850 responsibility to use defense resource 314 00:15:05,230 --> 00:15:03,019 including those available to us at RAF 315 00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:05,240 filing girls-only for activities which 316 00:15:10,030 --> 00:15:06,649 contribute to the defence and security 317 00:15:13,170 --> 00:15:10,040 of the UK the department has no opinion 318 00:15:17,860 --> 00:15:13,180 on the existence or otherwise of 319 00:15:19,540 --> 00:15:17,870 terrestrial life if the mo G continues 320 00:15:21,250 --> 00:15:19,550 to receive correspondence from members 321 00:15:23,439 --> 00:15:21,260 of the public confirming at concerning 322 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:23,449 UFO sightings the mo D does not 323 00:15:28,660 --> 00:15:26,810 investigate these so this is incredible 324 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:28,670 because I specifically I'll go back I 325 00:15:33,130 --> 00:15:31,610 specifically asked two copies of records 326 00:15:35,939 --> 00:15:33,140 related to the detection of unknown 327 00:15:39,069 --> 00:15:35,949 unidentified and unsolved objects 328 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:39,079 farling dolls which would include copies 329 00:15:42,460 --> 00:15:40,490 of actual detections and Tracking's 330 00:15:44,110 --> 00:15:42,470 electronic forms reports automatic 331 00:15:45,370 --> 00:15:44,120 toriel's that have been created by the 332 00:15:48,009 --> 00:15:45,380 systems a trifling dolls 333 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:48,019 and like I said they were there they 334 00:15:55,810 --> 00:15:53,690 reply one first mentioned first mentions 335 00:15:58,030 --> 00:15:55,820 that that filing dolls is all to do with 336 00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:58,040 defensive United Kingdom and not to do 337 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:00,079 with extraterrestrial life and then in 338 00:16:05,949 --> 00:16:03,170 the last paragraph they mentioned UFO 339 00:16:08,199 --> 00:16:05,959 sightings and again extraterrestrial 340 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:08,209 life and I've never seen that before 341 00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:10,970 I've never seen I mean I can only assume 342 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:12,980 that they have received requests like 343 00:16:20,770 --> 00:16:17,690 this before that can 344 00:16:22,540 --> 00:16:20,780 flog the UFO angle or the et angle but I 345 00:16:25,330 --> 00:16:22,550 certainly didn't ask for that so that 346 00:16:27,580 --> 00:16:25,340 was certainly very unusual when you when 347 00:16:30,580 --> 00:16:27,590 you read that did your jaw drop and did 348 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:30,590 you laugh yes I well I sort of thought 349 00:16:34,780 --> 00:16:32,690 to myself follow my sort of thoughts 350 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:34,790 myself hold on I sort of had to go back 351 00:16:38,620 --> 00:16:36,530 to my original if I were a request and 352 00:16:41,170 --> 00:16:38,630 think because I mean I knew I hadn't 353 00:16:44,020 --> 00:16:41,180 asked about 80 or aliens or UFO 354 00:16:46,750 --> 00:16:44,030 sightings or UFO records as such I I 355 00:16:48,670 --> 00:16:46,760 mean I mean yes it is true that the RAF 356 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:48,680 filing dulcis ballistic missile oil 357 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:50,450 early warning system radar on computers 358 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:52,910 it is true that they they do pick up the 359 00:16:58,900 --> 00:16:55,370 job is to pick up unidentified flying 360 00:17:01,840 --> 00:16:58,910 objects in a sense but but but but I 361 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:01,850 never included that radioactive term in 362 00:17:06,819 --> 00:17:04,610 my that toxic sort of term in my FOI 363 00:17:08,590 --> 00:17:06,829 request and I certainly didn't talk 364 00:17:14,620 --> 00:17:08,600 about extraterrestrial life I was quite 365 00:17:16,750 --> 00:17:14,630 start I can only free up as an FOI 366 00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:16,760 request of which I'm quite prolific or 367 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:20,000 they have simply assumed - this guy you 368 00:17:24,130 --> 00:17:21,970 know he wants UFO informational et 369 00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:24,140 records or something like that but yeah 370 00:17:26,590 --> 00:17:25,520 I was very surprised because usually the 371 00:17:27,610 --> 00:17:26,600 Ministry of Defense are very very 372 00:17:31,870 --> 00:17:27,620 straight down the line and they're very 373 00:17:33,850 --> 00:17:31,880 specific they're very they they they got 374 00:17:36,250 --> 00:17:33,860 their eyes and cross their toes I have 375 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:36,260 never seen the Ministry of Defence make 376 00:17:41,410 --> 00:17:37,850 such an assumption like this I was quite 377 00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:41,420 surprised year I just want to thank you 378 00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:44,510 for having gone over si SOI the space 379 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:46,910 object identification which can measure 380 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:48,710 anything in space regarding the length 381 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:51,050 the width the right eye cross-section 382 00:17:54,370 --> 00:17:52,490 returned the brightness the tumbling 383 00:17:56,830 --> 00:17:54,380 motions and this all helps to identify 384 00:17:59,470 --> 00:17:56,840 with the object is regarding space 385 00:18:01,720 --> 00:17:59,480 objects and you do you have any more on 386 00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:01,730 that topic you wanted to cover pipes I 387 00:18:07,540 --> 00:18:05,120 mean okay so like this is this is 388 00:18:09,670 --> 00:18:07,550 something really really important for 389 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:09,680 UFO research so space object 390 00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:12,890 identification it's it's a it's a theory 391 00:18:19,180 --> 00:18:16,310 it's a it's a term used by the US Air 392 00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:19,190 Force's Space Command and the 14th Air 393 00:18:23,650 --> 00:18:21,110 Force and the old air defense command 394 00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:23,660 and Aerospace Defense Command and the 395 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:26,000 British Royal Air Force and so on what's 396 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:28,130 what's away is space object 397 00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:30,890 identification is is any number of the 398 00:18:32,610 --> 00:18:31,390 sites 399 00:18:35,060 --> 00:18:32,620 whether it's the ballistic missile early 400 00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:35,070 warning system sites or the ground 401 00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:37,120 electro-optical deep surveillance system 402 00:18:42,299 --> 00:18:39,340 sites or the naval space surveillance 403 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:42,309 fence in America whatever they when they 404 00:18:46,710 --> 00:18:44,410 detect an object in space there a 405 00:18:50,250 --> 00:18:46,720 missile warhead or missile warheads 406 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:50,260 plural or satellite their systems their 407 00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:52,450 actual computer systems can perform 408 00:18:56,910 --> 00:18:54,190 something called space object 409 00:18:59,370 --> 00:18:56,920 identification or sewing and that means 410 00:19:02,039 --> 00:18:59,380 that the computer systems look at the 411 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:02,049 characteristics of the imaging or the 412 00:19:06,810 --> 00:19:04,570 radar returns they're looking for radar 413 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:06,820 reflectivity or optical reflectivity 414 00:19:10,980 --> 00:19:08,770 like how bright the object is in either 415 00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:10,990 radio mode or in optical right 416 00:19:15,090 --> 00:19:13,120 wavelengths they're looking for tumbling 417 00:19:17,070 --> 00:19:15,100 motions like is the is the object 418 00:19:20,970 --> 00:19:17,080 tumbling so it's going sort of bright 419 00:19:23,250 --> 00:19:20,980 dark bright dark at very consistent time 420 00:19:25,770 --> 00:19:23,260 lines they're looking for so they can 421 00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:25,780 determine with consistent radar data 422 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:27,520 they can determine size shape 423 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:29,650 characteristics and the reason I bring 424 00:19:33,780 --> 00:19:32,010 we we don't know a lot about SOI 425 00:19:36,090 --> 00:19:33,790 identification because obviously it's 426 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:36,100 highly classified but one thing that is 427 00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:37,690 interesting I was able to get some 428 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:39,520 really interesting 429 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:42,850 I suppose descriptors or narratives from 430 00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:46,650 from a from a from an old documents that 431 00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:49,150 that comes from a missile warning 432 00:19:53,370 --> 00:19:51,190 squadron in Florida that has a similar 433 00:19:55,140 --> 00:19:53,380 radar system so the ballistic missile 434 00:19:57,419 --> 00:19:55,150 early warning systems now what this is 435 00:19:59,280 --> 00:19:57,429 is down in Florida there's a there's an 436 00:20:02,310 --> 00:19:59,290 Air Force Base called Eglin Air Force 437 00:20:04,110 --> 00:20:02,320 Base and nearby there's a huge radar 438 00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:04,120 it's one of the most powerful radars in 439 00:20:10,409 --> 00:20:06,880 the world it's called the c6 sight and 440 00:20:14,010 --> 00:20:10,419 it's a it's a it's a US Air Force radar 441 00:20:15,750 --> 00:20:14,020 site it's it's been variously operated 442 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:15,760 by the over the years it's been around 443 00:20:21,870 --> 00:20:17,890 since 1968 and it's been variously 444 00:20:24,539 --> 00:20:21,880 operated by xx surveillance squadron xx 445 00:20:27,539 --> 00:20:24,549 missile warning squadron xx Space 446 00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:27,549 Surveillance Aldrin and so on now in the 447 00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:29,679 now like the ballistic missile early 448 00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:32,110 warning system the Eggland's site also 449 00:20:35,909 --> 00:20:34,240 does as its primary mission that does 450 00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:35,919 missile warning like missile object 451 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:38,049 warning like radar detection of missiles 452 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:40,210 and it also does space object 453 00:20:45,149 --> 00:20:43,210 identification or spy surveillance and 454 00:20:50,279 --> 00:20:45,159 I've got some 455 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:50,289 colleague of mine in Britain actually 456 00:20:55,169 --> 00:20:52,210 was able to get a document it's called a 457 00:20:57,899 --> 00:20:55,179 unit history and it's he was able to get 458 00:21:00,629 --> 00:20:57,909 a unit history from the 20th missile 459 00:21:01,830 --> 00:21:00,639 warning squadron it's the it's a you 460 00:21:03,779 --> 00:21:01,840 know history is a document that 461 00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:03,789 describes the history the mission the 462 00:21:08,609 --> 00:21:05,200 budget the manpower and personnel 463 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:08,619 requirements significant events visiting 464 00:21:16,889 --> 00:21:13,210 dignitaries awards and promotions health 465 00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:16,899 and safety incidences evacuations and so 466 00:21:23,129 --> 00:21:20,049 on by any squadron or battalion or wing 467 00:21:26,999 --> 00:21:23,139 or whatever of any US Air Force or US 468 00:21:28,619 --> 00:21:27,009 Army unit and anyway so so a unit 469 00:21:30,269 --> 00:21:28,629 history this particular unit history 470 00:21:32,519 --> 00:21:30,279 that we got out of the US Air Force it's 471 00:21:34,529 --> 00:21:32,529 called history of a 20th missile warning 472 00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:34,539 squadron first of October the 31st of 473 00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:38,830 December 1981 and in this so like I say 474 00:21:43,109 --> 00:21:41,590 we we don't have much about operation we 475 00:21:45,469 --> 00:21:43,119 don't have much on the record about 476 00:21:47,940 --> 00:21:45,479 operational space object identification 477 00:21:50,129 --> 00:21:47,950 because it's it's it's it's highly 478 00:21:53,310 --> 00:21:50,139 classified it's very very specific it's 479 00:21:54,419 --> 00:21:53,320 very hard to understand and and most 480 00:21:56,190 --> 00:21:54,429 people just aren't interested they 481 00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:56,200 should be UFO researchers should be 482 00:22:01,440 --> 00:21:58,090 exceedingly interested in this but most 483 00:22:04,289 --> 00:22:01,450 aren't anyway within the within this 484 00:22:06,599 --> 00:22:04,299 particular unit history there was a 485 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:06,609 there was a couple of passages about 486 00:22:12,899 --> 00:22:09,129 space object identification at Eglin Air 487 00:22:14,669 --> 00:22:12,909 Force Base on and rag2 of them one of 488 00:22:16,769 --> 00:22:14,679 them it says the space object 489 00:22:18,989 --> 00:22:16,779 identification technician was 490 00:22:22,409 --> 00:22:18,999 responsible for using radar information 491 00:22:25,019 --> 00:22:22,419 to define what a space object was and 492 00:22:27,269 --> 00:22:25,029 what it looked like each object and each 493 00:22:29,580 --> 00:22:27,279 part of an object had certain radar 494 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:29,590 returns which the technician could 495 00:22:33,659 --> 00:22:31,570 translate into a description of the 496 00:22:36,509 --> 00:22:33,669 object right that's the first sentence 497 00:22:41,159 --> 00:22:36,519 another sentence on the same page says 498 00:22:44,099 --> 00:22:41,169 the signals analysis system was used to 499 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:44,109 analyze returns from the radar for 500 00:22:50,479 --> 00:22:46,330 characteristics of space objects 501 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:50,489 including shape with length height etc 502 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:54,129 the SOI technicians use this information 503 00:22:59,590 --> 00:22:57,129 to identify space objects so what this 504 00:23:02,200 --> 00:22:59,600 is saying is right back in 1980 505 00:23:04,990 --> 00:23:02,210 which was nearly 40 years ago they're 506 00:23:08,530 --> 00:23:05,000 using 1970s computers and technologies 507 00:23:10,570 --> 00:23:08,540 in not 81 right even back then their 508 00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:10,580 technicians and their computer output 509 00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:16,310 systems are able to seriously use use 510 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:22,000 incoming data to to to to ascertain a 511 00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:24,730 full description of objects in space 512 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:27,440 right and me and presumably in missile 513 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:30,170 warning mode they were able to ascertain 514 00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:32,450 the shape and size of missile warheads 515 00:23:35,530 --> 00:23:33,710 you know like I mean it actually says 516 00:23:37,540 --> 00:23:35,540 literally says here that this was 517 00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:37,550 incredible to me that in 1981 it 518 00:23:41,740 --> 00:23:39,710 actually says here they're looking for 519 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:41,750 characteristics of space objects like I 520 00:23:47,650 --> 00:23:44,210 said including shape with length height 521 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:47,660 etc so it if that's in 1991 can you 522 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:49,250 imagine what the capabilities are like 523 00:23:58,930 --> 00:23:54,890 now exactly yes I was just looking up 524 00:24:01,930 --> 00:23:58,940 also a little bit about SOI today and I 525 00:24:04,270 --> 00:24:01,940 see contracts that get awarded for it on 526 00:24:08,110 --> 00:24:04,280 the web when was under was just a few 527 00:24:09,790 --> 00:24:08,120 dollars shy of $100,000 ad agency was 528 00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:09,800 Department of Defense branch of course 529 00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:13,310 Air Force and that amount of awarded to 530 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:16,880 that program was $100,000 for SOI for a 531 00:24:21,310 --> 00:24:19,370 certain year but yes of course any 532 00:24:23,530 --> 00:24:21,320 government would be acutely interested 533 00:24:26,410 --> 00:24:23,540 in following anything in space so I can 534 00:24:31,140 --> 00:24:26,420 imagine how acutely interested you 535 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:31,150 people who research the topic of UFOs 536 00:24:36,580 --> 00:24:34,250 should be and they should take heed 537 00:24:38,260 --> 00:24:36,590 regarding what you're saying wanted to 538 00:24:40,180 --> 00:24:38,270 ask you if there's any more on the 539 00:24:41,470 --> 00:24:40,190 ballistic early uh missile warning 540 00:24:44,890 --> 00:24:41,480 system you wanted to cover at all 541 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:44,900 absolutely hopes I mean the the there is 542 00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:48,770 just there is just so much here the the 543 00:24:58,900 --> 00:24:53,510 I'll give you an example of potentially 544 00:25:00,340 --> 00:24:58,910 how important this is the the ballistic 545 00:25:03,940 --> 00:25:00,350 missile early warning system which like 546 00:25:07,090 --> 00:25:03,950 off set is in Alaska Greenland and 547 00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:07,100 England they don't just so they are 548 00:25:09,970 --> 00:25:08,510 constantly searching for missile 549 00:25:12,220 --> 00:25:09,980 launchers and missile bodies like 550 00:25:13,690 --> 00:25:12,230 missile nuclear warheads or conventional 551 00:25:16,029 --> 00:25:13,700 warheads and like I said in sick 552 00:25:17,259 --> 00:25:16,039 remote secondary operational mode 553 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:17,269 they're searching for all their 554 00:25:20,649 --> 00:25:19,010 characterizing now identifying every 555 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:20,659 object in space that passes overhead 556 00:25:25,659 --> 00:25:22,850 right now they don't just sit on this 557 00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:25,669 data and and and and and then alert 558 00:25:28,389 --> 00:25:27,289 you know authorities that are you know 559 00:25:30,220 --> 00:25:28,399 Crockett we've got missiles coming 560 00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,230 towards us there is a massive stream 561 00:25:37,169 --> 00:25:32,480 chain-of-command and what actually 562 00:25:39,970 --> 00:25:37,179 happens is is that is that with with 563 00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:39,980 with all that data so all that data is 564 00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:43,279 constantly coming in right the the that 565 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:47,809 data it goes in the UK that data that 566 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:49,250 all at least at the Royal Air Force 567 00:25:54,519 --> 00:25:52,730 filing Dale's site in the UK the the the 568 00:25:57,129 --> 00:25:54,529 ballistic missile early warning radar 569 00:25:59,169 --> 00:25:57,139 data in the UK it goes to a place called 570 00:26:01,240 --> 00:25:59,179 the Space Operations Coordination Center 571 00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:01,250 and it also goes to another facility 572 00:26:06,539 --> 00:26:04,159 called the satellite warning service now 573 00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:06,549 in America things get more complicated 574 00:26:14,409 --> 00:26:12,110 the data the the the the data from 575 00:26:16,509 --> 00:26:14,419 rofling dials and it's an its systems 576 00:26:18,970 --> 00:26:16,519 goes to the joint functional component 577 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:18,980 center for space and specifically within 578 00:26:23,740 --> 00:26:22,010 that Center which is at Vandenberg in 579 00:26:25,690 --> 00:26:23,750 California at the actual the actual 580 00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:25,700 building the data goes to is the joint 581 00:26:33,370 --> 00:26:30,830 space Operations Center now from there 582 00:26:36,039 --> 00:26:33,380 there's different customers so some dart 583 00:26:37,450 --> 00:26:36,049 has some processed data from ballistic 584 00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:37,460 missile early warning system at filing 585 00:26:41,289 --> 00:26:38,960 Dale's like I said it comes through the 586 00:26:43,539 --> 00:26:41,299 the Vandenberg site some of some of the 587 00:26:44,980 --> 00:26:43,549 data gets forwarded onto NORAD's missile 588 00:26:48,250 --> 00:26:44,990 Warning Center at Peterson Air Force 589 00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:48,260 Base Colorado some goes to NASA some 590 00:26:52,899 --> 00:26:51,200 goes to US Strategic Command in Nebraska 591 00:26:56,649 --> 00:26:52,909 oh sorry 592 00:27:00,639 --> 00:26:56,659 in here in Nebraska now this is really 593 00:27:03,399 --> 00:27:00,649 important because you know if somewhere 594 00:27:04,419 --> 00:27:03,409 like RAF filing Geils itself or any of 595 00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:04,429 the ballistic missile early warning 596 00:27:09,009 --> 00:27:06,710 system sites if they won't release you 597 00:27:11,769 --> 00:27:09,019 know objects space object or missile 598 00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:11,779 object or what you could call UFO data 599 00:27:15,460 --> 00:27:13,760 lock UFO detection some reports if they 600 00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:15,470 won't release it then any of these other 601 00:27:20,649 --> 00:27:18,320 sites much so so I mean it's a bit like 602 00:27:22,180 --> 00:27:20,659 if you won't you know if you write a 603 00:27:23,769 --> 00:27:22,190 letter for someone and you won't give me 604 00:27:25,180 --> 00:27:23,779 a copy of the letter maybe I can go to 605 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:25,190 the person who you wrote it to and 606 00:27:27,610 --> 00:27:25,970 they'll give me a copy 607 00:27:30,549 --> 00:27:27,620 so I've identified 608 00:27:32,799 --> 00:27:30,559 you know a good 15 places or facilities 609 00:27:36,730 --> 00:27:32,809 or squadrons around the world where 610 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:36,740 we're we're raffling Dale's missile an 611 00:27:41,860 --> 00:27:38,930 object warning data goes to and I'm in 612 00:27:44,470 --> 00:27:41,870 the process of Fi wine all them as well 613 00:27:46,390 --> 00:27:44,480 so I've ever wide Air Force Space 614 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:46,400 Command I've if I wide NORAD which is 615 00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:48,650 nearly impossible to do and I'll give 616 00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:51,710 you an example of of why well how 617 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:53,840 difficult incredibly difficult at this 618 00:27:58,299 --> 00:27:56,450 is a really sensitive issue and and the 619 00:28:02,880 --> 00:27:58,309 reason I'll give you an example of how 620 00:28:05,890 --> 00:28:02,890 difficult it is is back back in the 80s 621 00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:05,900 the one of the one of the organizations 622 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:07,910 that actually received ballistic missile 623 00:28:13,299 --> 00:28:10,370 early warning data from from raffling 624 00:28:15,820 --> 00:28:13,309 Dale's it was a it was a it was a small 625 00:28:18,669 --> 00:28:15,830 squadron at well back then there was 626 00:28:20,650 --> 00:28:18,679 there was an old US Space Command and it 627 00:28:22,510 --> 00:28:20,660 was co-located with the North American 628 00:28:25,060 --> 00:28:22,520 Aerospace Defense Command or NORAD it 629 00:28:27,549 --> 00:28:25,070 was co-located at Cheyenne Mountain in 630 00:28:30,010 --> 00:28:27,559 Colorado right so so in Cheyenne 631 00:28:31,630 --> 00:28:30,020 Mountain Colorado you had you had NORAD 632 00:28:33,010 --> 00:28:31,640 on one side of the room and you had 633 00:28:35,410 --> 00:28:33,020 Space Command on the other side of the 634 00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,420 room and both of them will they both had 635 00:28:40,750 --> 00:28:38,080 a joint squadron it was called the first 636 00:28:41,230 --> 00:28:40,760 command and control squadron or one 637 00:28:43,570 --> 00:28:41,240 KAK's 638 00:28:46,210 --> 00:28:43,580 right and one cax their software and 639 00:28:48,820 --> 00:28:46,220 hardware they received you know we'll 640 00:28:51,070 --> 00:28:48,830 call it UFO data or missile or a space 641 00:28:53,380 --> 00:28:51,080 object data they received that sort of 642 00:28:56,110 --> 00:28:53,390 data from all over the world including 643 00:28:59,169 --> 00:28:56,120 from raffling girls in england and they 644 00:29:01,210 --> 00:28:59,179 must have my understanding of one cakes 645 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:01,220 one cakes was a squadron that lasts for 646 00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:03,530 11 years my understanding is that they 647 00:29:10,390 --> 00:29:07,520 they they must have produced hundreds of 648 00:29:12,490 --> 00:29:10,400 thousands or millions and millions of 649 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:12,500 pages of records space object 650 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:14,690 identification reports missile alerts 651 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:17,210 missile false alerts update reports 652 00:29:23,020 --> 00:29:19,610 manpower and personnel requirements 653 00:29:25,870 --> 00:29:23,030 system outages it you know display 654 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:25,880 configurations actual images of objects 655 00:29:30,130 --> 00:29:28,010 in space or whatever and if this 656 00:29:32,500 --> 00:29:30,140 squadron if one capsule on just one 657 00:29:34,660 --> 00:29:32,510 capsule on this little squadron if they 658 00:29:36,460 --> 00:29:34,670 produce hundreds of thousands of records 659 00:29:39,580 --> 00:29:36,470 millions of pages of records files 660 00:29:41,260 --> 00:29:39,590 special object assessments special staff 661 00:29:42,790 --> 00:29:41,270 studies i've worked 662 00:29:45,460 --> 00:29:42,800 you know the sort of documentation that 663 00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:45,470 this squadron produced that was there 664 00:29:50,950 --> 00:29:47,360 was you know astrological studies and 665 00:29:52,570 --> 00:29:50,960 and and special analysis point papers 666 00:29:55,420 --> 00:29:52,580 and space object identification 667 00:29:59,260 --> 00:29:55,430 requirements lists and whatever you know 668 00:30:01,420 --> 00:29:59,270 and and so far I've identified there is 669 00:30:02,170 --> 00:30:01,430 in all those years of history at one 670 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:02,180 Kirk's 671 00:30:08,050 --> 00:30:05,450 in all those years the US Air Force or 672 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:08,060 NORAD or whatever has only released one 673 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:11,210 single file there is so in other words 674 00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:13,370 this squadron which like I say must have 675 00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:15,110 produced an enormous amount of stuff on 676 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:19,390 what essentially are UFOs even if our 677 00:30:23,410 --> 00:30:22,010 missiles and satellites and stuff but 678 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:23,420 they must have produced millions of 679 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:26,210 pages of stuff and yet they only have 680 00:30:30,940 --> 00:30:28,850 ever released one single page of record 681 00:30:32,050 --> 00:30:30,950 and that happens to be a fact sheet it 682 00:30:34,180 --> 00:30:32,060 was called Air Force Space Command 683 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:34,190 mission directive organization mission 684 00:30:38,050 --> 00:30:37,370 field one kaxe that's all I've ever 685 00:30:39,820 --> 00:30:38,060 produced 686 00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:39,830 like that's all they've ever released 687 00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:42,710 under foi extraordinary that that so 688 00:30:48,460 --> 00:30:45,200 I've I'm in the process of going to 689 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:48,470 NORAD and u.s. Stratcom to release old 690 00:30:52,780 --> 00:30:50,810 one cax records and it is proving 691 00:30:54,780 --> 00:30:52,790 impossible they simply will not release 692 00:30:56,980 --> 00:30:54,790 anything they pretend they can't find it 693 00:30:58,390 --> 00:30:56,990 they pretend they don't know where it's 694 00:30:59,770 --> 00:30:58,400 house they pretend to know what the 695 00:31:02,200 --> 00:30:59,780 search and not know what the squadron 696 00:31:04,450 --> 00:31:02,210 ever actually was even though it was 697 00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:04,460 responsible for frontline early warning 698 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:07,070 for the Western world for space object 699 00:31:12,340 --> 00:31:10,130 and missile warning they they are simply 700 00:31:16,030 --> 00:31:12,350 not playing ball I mean this so this is 701 00:31:17,950 --> 00:31:16,040 going to be a very very long affair I 702 00:31:22,270 --> 00:31:17,960 wanted to bring up something a little 703 00:31:23,770 --> 00:31:22,280 random and that is in 2001 and by the 704 00:31:25,780 --> 00:31:23,780 way you're right you really can't find 705 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:25,790 anything on that topic at all except for 706 00:31:30,910 --> 00:31:28,730 what you just said when I was doing just 707 00:31:32,770 --> 00:31:30,920 a little bit of research on the flying 708 00:31:34,780 --> 00:31:32,780 dales regarding the American radar 709 00:31:39,090 --> 00:31:34,790 stations over there 710 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:39,100 it said in this article done in 2001 711 00:31:46,990 --> 00:31:43,930 that there was a controversial Star Wars 712 00:31:48,130 --> 00:31:47,000 program as you know and I'll just go 713 00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:48,140 ahead and read the paragraph to you 714 00:31:52,420 --> 00:31:50,510 regarding this 2001 article there have 715 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:52,430 been American radar stations at flying 716 00:31:57,340 --> 00:31:55,130 Dale's and Menwith Hill for 717 00:31:58,900 --> 00:31:57,350 scanning the skies for hostile missiles 718 00:32:01,360 --> 00:31:58,910 they've never attracted much criticism 719 00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:01,370 but recently they've changed in 720 00:32:03,789 --> 00:32:01,910 appearance 721 00:32:05,770 --> 00:32:03,799 surely this could mean only one thing 722 00:32:07,690 --> 00:32:05,780 they will play a central role in the 723 00:32:10,510 --> 00:32:07,700 u.s. president's controversial Star Wars 724 00:32:13,090 --> 00:32:10,520 strategy now it's not just the people of 725 00:32:15,580 --> 00:32:13,100 North Yorkshire who are worrying I 726 00:32:18,700 --> 00:32:15,590 wanted to know did you ever hear about 727 00:32:20,650 --> 00:32:18,710 that topic no no I mean I've looked a 728 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:20,660 lot of mostly looked into the history 729 00:32:25,180 --> 00:32:23,210 and the actual capabilities of the site 730 00:32:26,830 --> 00:32:25,190 but no I mean there is so much out there 731 00:32:29,409 --> 00:32:26,840 that's very very generalized and yeah I 732 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:29,419 mean you know like it is definitely a 733 00:32:34,180 --> 00:32:31,730 political issue I mean that the raffling 734 00:32:39,820 --> 00:32:34,190 doll site as part of the wider and 735 00:32:43,419 --> 00:32:39,830 growing new US Space Command Network it 736 00:32:45,070 --> 00:32:43,429 is a frontline site I mean you know it's 737 00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:45,080 been discussed in Britain's Parliament a 738 00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:47,630 lot like how it should be funded you 739 00:32:52,450 --> 00:32:50,240 know the possibility for protests and 740 00:32:53,799 --> 00:32:52,460 terrorism at the site and so on but no 741 00:32:55,779 --> 00:32:53,809 specifically what you've said I haven't 742 00:32:58,060 --> 00:32:55,789 touched that but I mean you know there's 743 00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:58,070 there's a lot you know there's a heck of 744 00:33:03,490 --> 00:33:01,039 a lot out there well it also goes on to 745 00:33:06,669 --> 00:33:03,500 say that culturally the flying dales 746 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:06,679 have never become unacceptable to 747 00:33:12,340 --> 00:33:08,570 Britons in general do you know what that 748 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:12,350 means I don't know I mean I I know that 749 00:33:22,570 --> 00:33:19,490 the the the would be it sounds like it 750 00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:22,580 was politicized a little bit yeah anyway 751 00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:24,080 do you think in the future there might 752 00:33:27,970 --> 00:33:26,720 be you know more files or do you think 753 00:33:30,370 --> 00:33:27,980 you might have to hold your breath on 754 00:33:32,919 --> 00:33:30,380 that there's going to be there's going 755 00:33:34,659 --> 00:33:32,929 to be absolutely phenomenal a number of 756 00:33:37,210 --> 00:33:34,669 files but but we're gonna be holding our 757 00:33:39,220 --> 00:33:37,220 breath for years you know like the the 758 00:33:41,289 --> 00:33:39,230 the the chances of us getting anything 759 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:41,299 out of NORAD whether it's historical or 760 00:33:47,350 --> 00:33:43,730 currency currently that the ballistic 761 00:33:49,390 --> 00:33:47,360 missile early warning system like I said 762 00:33:52,870 --> 00:33:49,400 that the data the data goes both to US 763 00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:52,880 Air Force and to Britain's space and 764 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:55,760 missile warning cells and and certainly 765 00:34:00,850 --> 00:33:57,770 in the US Air Force the actual the 766 00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:00,860 actual controlling wing of the three 767 00:34:04,419 --> 00:34:02,510 ballistic missile early warning system 768 00:34:06,669 --> 00:34:04,429 sites the controlling win wing is the 769 00:34:08,590 --> 00:34:06,679 21st spice wing and the actual group 770 00:34:08,890 --> 00:34:08,600 underneath that is the 21st Operations 771 00:34:11,140 --> 00:34:08,900 grow 772 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:11,150 now to get anything out of the 21st 773 00:34:17,050 --> 00:34:13,610 Operations Group about capability radar 774 00:34:18,340 --> 00:34:17,060 detection special studies anything 775 00:34:20,380 --> 00:34:18,350 highly classified it's going to be 776 00:34:23,050 --> 00:34:20,390 nearly impossible but you know like 777 00:34:26,380 --> 00:34:23,060 there is a possibility if foi 778 00:34:28,210 --> 00:34:26,390 laws relax a lot or if there's any 779 00:34:30,670 --> 00:34:28,220 historical data that's deemed to be 780 00:34:32,290 --> 00:34:30,680 worth that it's not particularly 781 00:34:33,910 --> 00:34:32,300 sensitive i mean eventually they will 782 00:34:36,070 --> 00:34:33,920 release it but it's going to take a lot 783 00:34:39,850 --> 00:34:36,080 of letter writing it's going to take a 784 00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:39,860 lot of the archival searching yeah it's 785 00:34:46,570 --> 00:34:43,280 going to be really difficult during a 786 00:34:49,180 --> 00:34:46,580 show with a christian Lambright he was a 787 00:34:51,490 --> 00:34:49,190 very good friend of yours i touched upon 788 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:51,500 the topic just wanted to bring up a 789 00:34:57,580 --> 00:34:54,530 random subject here regarding FOIAs and 790 00:35:01,090 --> 00:34:57,590 how a you know an individual dedicated 791 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:01,100 to requesting boys from any government 792 00:35:07,810 --> 00:35:04,090 around the world can run into some 793 00:35:10,810 --> 00:35:07,820 extreme challenges and actually on the 794 00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:10,820 national security archives website they 795 00:35:16,900 --> 00:35:14,240 talked about that topic on that website 796 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:16,910 they talk about a twenty five-year-old 797 00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:22,850 FOIA requests a FOIA delay continues 798 00:35:29,830 --> 00:35:26,960 unabated meaning it's basically a an 799 00:35:33,250 --> 00:35:29,840 argument that's happened for years where 800 00:35:36,790 --> 00:35:33,260 people will ask ad nauseam what happened 801 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:36,800 my FOIA for 25 years and they're 802 00:35:42,550 --> 00:35:40,850 basically ignored and then it says here 803 00:35:45,610 --> 00:35:42,560 in this national security archives 804 00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:45,620 article it says the key driver for FOIA 805 00:35:53,860 --> 00:35:51,920 requests that could be it's actually a 806 00:35:56,020 --> 00:35:53,870 strange article i'm gonna have to read a 807 00:35:58,360 --> 00:35:56,030 paragraph before it so it can actually 808 00:35:59,740 --> 00:35:58,370 make sense because these it again it's 809 00:36:01,720 --> 00:35:59,750 very strange the way they talk in this 810 00:36:03,850 --> 00:36:01,730 article so the first paragraph i'm going 811 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:03,860 to read here is the archive audit audit 812 00:36:08,410 --> 00:36:05,690 team parsed through the annual FOIA 813 00:36:10,330 --> 00:36:08,420 reports federal agencies are required to 814 00:36:12,790 --> 00:36:10,340 submit to the Department of Justice's 815 00:36:14,650 --> 00:36:12,800 Office on information policy and found 816 00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:14,660 that while many agencies appear to have 817 00:36:19,090 --> 00:36:16,730 used new reporting requirements as a 818 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:19,100 tool to address the oldest agency's FOIA 819 00:36:27,470 --> 00:36:21,210 requests 820 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:27,480 archive used the fiscal year 2017 821 00:36:30,620 --> 00:36:29,010 reports because they were the most 822 00:36:33,140 --> 00:36:30,630 comprehensive collection available at 823 00:36:35,090 --> 00:36:33,150 the time of publication due to the delay 824 00:36:37,820 --> 00:36:35,100 caused by government shutdown and will 825 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:37,830 be update and will update this posting 826 00:36:42,290 --> 00:36:40,530 once a complete set of FY 2018 reports 827 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:42,300 are available then it gets a little 828 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:44,850 stranger it says the key driver for FOIA 829 00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:48,330 requests that could be renting cars by 830 00:36:53,870 --> 00:36:50,880 now and growing backlogs there must be a 831 00:36:57,170 --> 00:36:53,880 spelling error there is the referral 832 00:36:59,960 --> 00:36:57,180 black hole is what it's called agencies 833 00:37:02,660 --> 00:36:59,970 currently refer or consult on any FOIA 834 00:37:04,850 --> 00:37:02,670 request in which it feels another agency 835 00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:04,860 or agencies may possibly claim ownership 836 00:37:10,970 --> 00:37:08,310 of or equity in the information within 837 00:37:13,580 --> 00:37:10,980 the records this daisy-chain of 838 00:37:17,210 --> 00:37:13,590 referrals can result often in decades 839 00:37:19,220 --> 00:37:17,220 long delay and the re-review of the same 840 00:37:22,130 --> 00:37:19,230 document by multiple agencies is 841 00:37:25,660 --> 00:37:22,140 redundant costly and inefficient I guess 842 00:37:29,140 --> 00:37:25,670 it doesn't really shock you and that how 843 00:37:32,060 --> 00:37:29,150 ineffective inefficient and apathetic 844 00:37:33,500 --> 00:37:32,070 the US government probably the UK 845 00:37:36,260 --> 00:37:33,510 government I'm guessing you'll have to 846 00:37:39,770 --> 00:37:36,270 confirm that how how they react to a 847 00:37:45,310 --> 00:37:39,780 person who typically is dedicated to 848 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:45,320 FOIA requests and they get kind of a 849 00:37:51,350 --> 00:37:47,970 non-response or when they do get a 850 00:37:54,290 --> 00:37:51,360 response it puts them it forces a person 851 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:54,300 like you into a circular conversation 852 00:37:59,360 --> 00:37:56,810 with them so it's going to ask you 853 00:38:03,560 --> 00:37:59,370 statistically just a guess on your part 854 00:38:09,110 --> 00:38:03,570 in your lifetime of requesting FOIAs 855 00:38:11,660 --> 00:38:09,120 from any government how often do you get 856 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:11,670 stonewalled on it all the time all the 857 00:38:14,930 --> 00:38:13,290 time I can give you so many examples we 858 00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:14,940 could hate be hail me but would you say 859 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:19,110 the percent of the time for America when 860 00:38:23,630 --> 00:38:21,930 I'm when I'm requesting military and to 861 00:38:25,370 --> 00:38:23,640 a lesser extent intelligence material 862 00:38:28,730 --> 00:38:25,380 but but particularly operational 863 00:38:31,370 --> 00:38:28,740 military material or administrative 864 00:38:33,350 --> 00:38:31,380 material there is it is so common 865 00:38:34,370 --> 00:38:33,360 probably above fifty percent of the time 866 00:38:35,780 --> 00:38:34,380 the the agent 867 00:38:39,470 --> 00:38:35,790 see that our request information from 868 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:39,480 will consult with two three four five 869 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:41,970 other agencies at different layerings of 870 00:38:50,060 --> 00:38:44,610 government so for example let's say I 871 00:38:52,670 --> 00:38:50,070 asked for certain records from the 11th 872 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:52,680 tactical control group in Alaska right 873 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:55,650 which is which is those records are 874 00:39:00,230 --> 00:38:57,330 controlled by the United States Air 875 00:39:01,910 --> 00:39:00,240 Forces Alaska Air Region find simple 876 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:01,920 that's that's that's one organization 877 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:03,890 within another organization that's fine 878 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:06,330 okay then they'll come back to me and 879 00:39:11,690 --> 00:39:08,970 say hold on we've got a consult with 880 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:11,700 Pacific Air Force Headquarters we've got 881 00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:14,610 a consult with Pacific Command we've got 882 00:39:27,170 --> 00:39:24,890 regions say the 25th Air Division at 883 00:39:30,140 --> 00:39:27,180 McChord Air Force Base we've got a 884 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:30,150 consult with let's see who else would 885 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:32,010 maybe if it's an old document if the 886 00:39:35,690 --> 00:39:33,930 whoever inherited Air Force Systems 887 00:39:36,860 --> 00:39:35,700 Command documents so that would be the 888 00:39:38,570 --> 00:39:36,870 Air Force materials command at 889 00:39:40,340 --> 00:39:38,580 wright-patterson Air Force Base and so 890 00:39:43,370 --> 00:39:40,350 on so you get this situation where you 891 00:39:44,420 --> 00:39:43,380 ask for you know the documents you asked 892 00:39:47,660 --> 00:39:44,430 for documents within a particular 893 00:39:49,940 --> 00:39:47,670 squadron or wing or within say an 894 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:49,950 intelligence community document like say 895 00:39:53,300 --> 00:39:50,970 the Directorate of Science and 896 00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:53,310 Technology within the CIA and all of a 897 00:39:56,570 --> 00:39:55,110 sudden they say well that's all right we 898 00:39:58,130 --> 00:39:56,580 might want to release these records 899 00:40:00,440 --> 00:39:58,140 that's fine but we've got to consult 900 00:40:03,620 --> 00:40:00,450 with the NSA we've got a consult with 901 00:40:08,420 --> 00:40:03,630 you know in ska army intelligence we've 902 00:40:10,820 --> 00:40:08,430 got a consult with a Air Force Systems 903 00:40:13,310 --> 00:40:10,830 Command or whatever it happens all the 904 00:40:14,930 --> 00:40:13,320 time and it's very very very slow you 905 00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:14,940 know like I've seen this I've seen this 906 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:18,180 many many many times I mean even with 907 00:40:21,980 --> 00:40:20,010 with all this filing Dale stuff I've 908 00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:21,990 been asking the British government for 909 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:24,720 filing draft filing diols material I've 910 00:40:28,910 --> 00:40:27,210 been asking them for a long time and 911 00:40:33,350 --> 00:40:28,920 even I mean they're not going to release 912 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:33,360 actual object data but but the the aside 913 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:34,890 from that that they're not going to 914 00:40:38,900 --> 00:40:36,330 release anything in any way because 915 00:40:43,550 --> 00:40:38,910 raffling does is an international site 916 00:40:46,100 --> 00:40:43,560 like it's it's it's its own I've got it 917 00:40:49,309 --> 00:40:46,110 I've got a statement here that discusses 918 00:40:56,190 --> 00:40:54,390 I've got a I've got a a in another 919 00:40:58,410 --> 00:40:56,200 request that I did for a filing Dale's 920 00:41:01,079 --> 00:40:58,420 doctrinal wasn't asking for actual 921 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:01,089 object identification records I was 922 00:41:04,740 --> 00:41:02,770 asking for administrative material from 923 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:04,750 the British government and like I simply 924 00:41:10,589 --> 00:41:06,970 came back and they said that being a US 925 00:41:12,029 --> 00:41:10,599 adjoints British and US side they've 926 00:41:13,710 --> 00:41:12,039 said he having reviewed the information 927 00:41:15,359 --> 00:41:13,720 Howell it is evident that the 928 00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:15,369 information requested may fall within 929 00:41:22,410 --> 00:41:16,960 the scope of international relations 930 00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:22,420 exemptions 27 1 8 27 27 2 and 27 3 these 931 00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:24,250 exemptions require us to conduct a 932 00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:26,079 Public Interest tests bla bla bla bla 933 00:41:32,309 --> 00:41:30,089 bla so you know they're basically 934 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:32,319 they're basically saying that these doc 935 00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:34,450 you got another sentence that says these 936 00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:36,640 documents contain information expecting 937 00:41:40,319 --> 00:41:37,510 the National Defense of the United 938 00:41:42,029 --> 00:41:40,329 States within the meaning of espionage 939 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:42,039 laws bla bla bla bla bla 940 00:41:46,170 --> 00:41:44,410 so the so even even if you find 941 00:41:48,630 --> 00:41:46,180 something even if you want some fairly 942 00:41:50,039 --> 00:41:48,640 specific documents in a case of say the 943 00:41:51,329 --> 00:41:50,049 case of raffling dollars it's even 944 00:41:54,089 --> 00:41:51,339 harder because they've got to go through 945 00:41:56,460 --> 00:41:54,099 international bodies like you know the 946 00:41:58,019 --> 00:41:56,470 US Air Force so this happens all the 947 00:41:59,970 --> 00:41:58,029 time to answer your question I'm not I'm 948 00:42:02,519 --> 00:41:59,980 not surprised at all so I wanted to ask 949 00:42:05,220 --> 00:42:02,529 you another question so let me preface 950 00:42:07,470 --> 00:42:05,230 my question with kind of how you 951 00:42:09,839 --> 00:42:07,480 summarized it now I'm going to bring up 952 00:42:13,170 --> 00:42:09,849 some points that you made and then I'll 953 00:42:15,390 --> 00:42:13,180 ask my question and a few things a few 954 00:42:18,049 --> 00:42:15,400 points you made and then I'll may be out 955 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:18,059 in one of one of my own there's endless 956 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:21,130 possibly or potentially endless 957 00:42:27,210 --> 00:42:23,770 paperwork and red tape a lack of 958 00:42:28,980 --> 00:42:27,220 decision-making ability I'm talking on 959 00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:28,990 behalf of the government's you're asking 960 00:42:36,890 --> 00:42:31,599 regarding FOIAs seemingly seemingly 961 00:42:38,789 --> 00:42:36,900 useless policies possibly lack of a 962 00:42:41,180 --> 00:42:38,799 transparency which is why you're asking 963 00:42:44,789 --> 00:42:41,190 for the FOIA is in the first place and 964 00:42:55,380 --> 00:42:44,799 all that can be a blessing and a curse 965 00:42:58,740 --> 00:42:55,390 mostly occurs it was how does he permit 966 00:43:00,520 --> 00:42:58,750 with it psychologically oh boy patience 967 00:43:03,609 --> 00:43:00,530 absolutely enormous Matt supply 968 00:43:04,300 --> 00:43:03,619 you've got to you've got to well one of 969 00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:04,310 them you've got to have great 970 00:43:07,450 --> 00:43:05,599 record-keeping so you've got to keep 971 00:43:10,089 --> 00:43:07,460 copies of all if I wash I've sent out 972 00:43:11,559 --> 00:43:10,099 all the appeals you've made but 973 00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:11,569 psychologically you've got to be patient 974 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:13,520 you're in it for the long haul I mean in 975 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:15,890 Australia it's much we're much luckier 976 00:43:22,900 --> 00:43:18,530 here al now at the Department of Defense 977 00:43:24,220 --> 00:43:22,910 anyway ll ow if I wire system is totally 978 00:43:27,250 --> 00:43:24,230 centralized for the Department of 979 00:43:29,380 --> 00:43:27,260 Defense that's Army Air Force Navy and 980 00:43:30,910 --> 00:43:29,390 and then top echelon records like the 981 00:43:33,099 --> 00:43:30,920 Minister of Defence and and whatever 982 00:43:35,859 --> 00:43:33,109 it's all centralized so here it's quite 983 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:35,869 easy it's much easier but for for the 984 00:43:39,609 --> 00:43:37,970 for the United States and and even the 985 00:43:41,980 --> 00:43:39,619 United Kingdom you've got to be 986 00:43:45,010 --> 00:43:41,990 incredibly patient you've got to read 987 00:43:47,020 --> 00:43:45,020 the FOI act like you've if you if you 988 00:43:50,020 --> 00:43:47,030 could stomach it you've got a read the 989 00:43:55,319 --> 00:43:50,030 laws you've got it's really advantageous 990 00:43:57,550 --> 00:43:55,329 to read read the results of other foi 991 00:43:59,800 --> 00:43:57,560 requesters work like you know 992 00:44:02,500 --> 00:43:59,810 journalists work and and researchers 993 00:44:04,210 --> 00:44:02,510 work and university professors studies 994 00:44:05,890 --> 00:44:04,220 and so on you've got a read other people 995 00:44:08,140 --> 00:44:05,900 you eat you wouldn't just go in just 996 00:44:09,579 --> 00:44:08,150 blasting out if I were requests if other 997 00:44:11,170 --> 00:44:09,589 people had already done the same stuff 998 00:44:12,790 --> 00:44:11,180 so you've got to do a mixture of 999 00:44:16,690 --> 00:44:12,800 research and you've got to have a lot of 1000 00:44:18,460 --> 00:44:16,700 patience yeah so and and we all know you 1001 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:18,470 have an immense amount of patience and 1002 00:44:21,819 --> 00:44:20,210 you're not afraid of hearing no because 1003 00:44:24,430 --> 00:44:21,829 obviously you wouldn't have been asking 1004 00:44:26,859 --> 00:44:24,440 for is all these years later now I 1005 00:44:29,170 --> 00:44:26,869 wanted to bring up another FOIA topic if 1006 00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:29,180 you don't mind and I'll go ahead and 1007 00:44:33,550 --> 00:44:30,319 preface again with a little bit of 1008 00:44:34,930 --> 00:44:33,560 information mainstream media like for 1009 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:34,940 example let's just say the New York 1010 00:44:39,450 --> 00:44:37,130 Times they have deep pockets so if they 1011 00:44:42,940 --> 00:44:39,460 need to go ahead and create a lawsuit 1012 00:44:46,150 --> 00:44:42,950 regarding a FOIA request they probably 1013 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:46,160 can do that no problem but an individual 1014 00:44:50,530 --> 00:44:48,650 like yourself who does all this for free 1015 00:44:52,839 --> 00:44:50,540 you don't get paid a dime for what you 1016 00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:52,849 do this is all volunteer based and you 1017 00:44:58,150 --> 00:44:55,040 work just as hard if not harder and then 1018 00:45:00,579 --> 00:44:58,160 most people regarding FOIA requests and 1019 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:00,589 you're just utterly dedicated to that 1020 00:45:07,089 --> 00:45:04,010 exercise of requesting information for 1021 00:45:09,730 --> 00:45:07,099 transparencies sake what do you do when 1022 00:45:12,910 --> 00:45:09,740 you realize that you're dealing with a 1023 00:45:14,260 --> 00:45:12,920 flawed decision in other words let's say 1024 00:45:16,780 --> 00:45:14,270 you get a letter back 1025 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:16,790 or one of many indicating that you don't 1026 00:45:20,650 --> 00:45:18,410 have the right friend from information 1027 00:45:23,710 --> 00:45:20,660 you're asking but you know you do and 1028 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:23,720 you don't have the money to create a 1029 00:45:29,860 --> 00:45:27,170 lawsuit to force that agency or agencies 1030 00:45:33,370 --> 00:45:29,870 to give that information that rightfully 1031 00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:33,380 should be given what do you do that's a 1032 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:34,640 good question and there's a couple of 1033 00:45:39,970 --> 00:45:37,370 things you can do one you can appeal it 1034 00:45:41,290 --> 00:45:39,980 you can you can any foi decision where 1035 00:45:43,180 --> 00:45:41,300 they come back and they say we have no 1036 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:43,190 records or we have records but we can't 1037 00:45:47,350 --> 00:45:45,290 find them or we need more time and we 1038 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:47,360 need even more time and whatever you can 1039 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:49,610 appeal it you can appeal it and that can 1040 00:45:53,740 --> 00:45:52,490 sometimes yield records or yield further 1041 00:45:55,420 --> 00:45:53,750 information that you didn't know before 1042 00:45:57,340 --> 00:45:55,430 like where the records are physically 1043 00:45:58,690 --> 00:45:57,350 kept or where they used to be physically 1044 00:46:02,260 --> 00:45:58,700 kept or whatever that's one thing you 1045 00:46:04,660 --> 00:46:02,270 can do another thing you can do is is 1046 00:46:07,270 --> 00:46:04,670 ultimately all records eventually are 1047 00:46:09,730 --> 00:46:07,280 truly archived and go somewhere that's 1048 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:09,740 on microfiche harddrive physical files 1049 00:46:14,020 --> 00:46:11,930 in in manila folders whatever they 1050 00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:14,030 ultimately are either destroyed or they 1051 00:46:19,630 --> 00:46:16,070 have to go somewhere so in the case of 1052 00:46:21,550 --> 00:46:19,640 the United States old USA for US 1053 00:46:23,740 --> 00:46:21,560 Airforce files or US Navy files or 1054 00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:23,750 whatever they can go to the National 1055 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:25,310 Archives and Records Administration in 1056 00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:29,170 Washington DC they can go into the Naval 1057 00:46:34,660 --> 00:46:32,240 War College they might go to Maxwell Air 1058 00:46:36,970 --> 00:46:34,670 Force bases has two Air Force historical 1059 00:46:38,890 --> 00:46:36,980 research agency they might they might go 1060 00:46:41,050 --> 00:46:38,900 to the federal records Center of San 1061 00:46:44,140 --> 00:46:41,060 Luis one thing you can do is try and 1062 00:46:48,100 --> 00:46:44,150 speed that up so let's say let's say you 1063 00:46:50,860 --> 00:46:48,110 ask for records from NASA 10-8 like 1983 1064 00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:50,870 records and let's say US Strategic 1065 00:46:54,610 --> 00:46:52,730 Command comes back and says well we've 1066 00:46:59,200 --> 00:46:54,620 found some of the records you want the 1067 00:47:01,000 --> 00:46:59,210 rest we can't find and you know that 1068 00:47:03,130 --> 00:47:01,010 we're gonna knock you back for blah blah 1069 00:47:05,740 --> 00:47:03,140 blah what you can do you can then go to 1070 00:47:07,690 --> 00:47:05,750 the National Archives or the or you know 1071 00:47:09,550 --> 00:47:07,700 the the Air Force historical research 1072 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:09,560 agency or whatever and you can say to 1073 00:47:14,710 --> 00:47:12,050 them hey look I've just done some if I 1074 00:47:16,270 --> 00:47:14,720 work with US Stratcom they've got some 1075 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:16,280 records which really you should have by 1076 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:18,170 now because they're still sitting on 1077 00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:20,090 them in their libraries and in their big 1078 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:21,920 vaults and you know shouldn't they be 1079 00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:23,570 requested centrally by now because 1080 00:47:27,980 --> 00:47:26,000 they're so old so basically all the 1081 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:27,990 records are all records eventually on 1082 00:47:31,970 --> 00:47:30,330 records should eventually go to big 1083 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:31,980 archival centers they should be 1084 00:47:36,650 --> 00:47:34,770 declassified usually Declassified and go 1085 00:47:38,420 --> 00:47:36,660 to big archival centers and you can see 1086 00:47:40,070 --> 00:47:38,430 if you can speed that up by saying well 1087 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:40,080 you know guys you shouldn't actually 1088 00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:41,490 have to still have these records anyway 1089 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:43,200 they're 40 years old maybe you should 1090 00:47:47,660 --> 00:47:45,210 sequester them and sent literally send 1091 00:47:50,540 --> 00:47:47,670 them to the National Archives or the 1092 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:50,550 Space Museum or whatever and and then 1093 00:47:54,590 --> 00:47:53,490 but even that is of course very slow so 1094 00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:54,600 that's one thing you can do another 1095 00:47:59,480 --> 00:47:57,570 thing you can do is is possibly find out 1096 00:48:01,190 --> 00:47:59,490 let's say there's some records that they 1097 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:01,200 refuse to release or pretend they don't 1098 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:04,130 have you can see if possibly in the past 1099 00:48:08,750 --> 00:48:06,810 anyone else has got those records out so 1100 00:48:11,690 --> 00:48:08,760 I know an author who's actually recently 1101 00:48:14,270 --> 00:48:11,700 died he's a very famous the aerospace 1102 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:14,280 and space historian his name was Jeffrey 1103 00:48:19,220 --> 00:48:16,770 T Richardson and he wrote a lot of books 1104 00:48:23,900 --> 00:48:19,230 on space satellites space object 1105 00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:23,910 detection the army the history of the 1106 00:48:28,940 --> 00:48:26,730 CIA etc he was a really brilliant guy 1107 00:48:31,550 --> 00:48:28,950 and I had a fair bit to do with him via 1108 00:48:33,830 --> 00:48:31,560 email usually sometimes on the phone but 1109 00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:33,840 anyway Jeffrey to rich Wilson he managed 1110 00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:36,240 back in the 80s and 90s to get a heck of 1111 00:48:40,780 --> 00:48:38,880 a lot of records out of the US Air Force 1112 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:40,790 and the US Navy and the US Army and 1113 00:48:45,500 --> 00:48:43,890 these records now I can't find them or 1114 00:48:46,910 --> 00:48:45,510 they say that's a highly classified or 1115 00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:46,920 whatever but he actually got them out 1116 00:48:51,290 --> 00:48:49,680 and I was able before he died I was able 1117 00:48:54,830 --> 00:48:51,300 to actually track down where his records 1118 00:48:57,620 --> 00:48:54,840 were and his research assistant Jennifer 1119 00:48:59,180 --> 00:48:57,630 Rimmer actually sent me some of the most 1120 00:49:00,700 --> 00:48:59,190 important records I've ever seen there 1121 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:00,710 was squadron and wing based 1122 00:49:05,620 --> 00:49:03,330 administrative and command records there 1123 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:05,630 were instructions manuals regulations 1124 00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:09,210 from Air Division and aerospace epsilon 1125 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:11,040 level of the US Air Force what other 1126 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:13,890 records were there fact sheets and chart 1127 00:49:21,020 --> 00:49:16,530 books memorandums of understanding 1128 00:49:22,910 --> 00:49:21,030 between space like space agencies they 1129 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:22,920 were there were records on the actual 1130 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:25,290 physical capabilities of radar sites and 1131 00:49:30,530 --> 00:49:27,330 and optical telescopes sites scattered 1132 00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:30,540 across the United States all sorts of 1133 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:32,730 all sorts of record records that I would 1134 00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:34,530 have thought would now be classified but 1135 00:49:37,430 --> 00:49:35,520 back in the 80s they weren't 1136 00:49:38,270 --> 00:49:37,440 particularly interesting which is ironic 1137 00:49:41,150 --> 00:49:38,280 you'd think it would be the other way 1138 00:49:41,980 --> 00:49:41,160 around but no but the very records are 1139 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:41,990 Jeffrey Taylor 1140 00:49:48,190 --> 00:49:45,770 Richardson got out in in the 80s and 90s 1141 00:49:50,079 --> 00:49:48,200 a record sale to can't find at the 1142 00:49:52,420 --> 00:49:50,089 moment or or they consider to be too 1143 00:49:53,829 --> 00:49:52,430 sensitive and he he's somehow managed to 1144 00:49:55,450 --> 00:49:53,839 get them out because he was an excellent 1145 00:49:57,849 --> 00:49:55,460 researcher he was a very very dogmatic 1146 00:49:59,800 --> 00:49:57,859 researcher he had a bit of funding from 1147 00:50:01,540 --> 00:49:59,810 universities as well and he wrote very 1148 00:50:02,410 --> 00:50:01,550 very popular book so he had a lot more 1149 00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:02,420 clout than I do 1150 00:50:06,099 --> 00:50:04,400 I mean I'm stuck in Australia as an 1151 00:50:09,490 --> 00:50:06,109 individual researcher he had a whole 1152 00:50:11,230 --> 00:50:09,500 organization behind him and and then he 1153 00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:11,240 I mean to have a research assistant like 1154 00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:13,730 Jennifer who helped me out knowing when 1155 00:50:19,540 --> 00:50:16,640 when I started asking Jeffery for scant 1156 00:50:20,740 --> 00:50:19,550 materials was fantastic so sometimes 1157 00:50:22,300 --> 00:50:20,750 you've got to look back into the past 1158 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:22,310 and see what other people have managed 1159 00:50:25,510 --> 00:50:23,690 to get out of government agencies but 1160 00:50:26,829 --> 00:50:25,520 it's very slow you know you're gonna 1161 00:50:31,740 --> 00:50:26,839 write a lot of books a lot of magazines 1162 00:50:34,270 --> 00:50:31,750 and yeah yeah I wanted to also bring up 1163 00:50:35,890 --> 00:50:34,280 an interesting topic if you don't mind 1164 00:50:38,650 --> 00:50:35,900 touching on it just a little bit and 1165 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:38,660 that is the you'll see where I'm going 1166 00:50:45,849 --> 00:50:40,970 with this it's still related to the FOIA 1167 00:50:47,980 --> 00:50:45,859 topic Richard Doty he wrote a wonderful 1168 00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:47,990 article regarding this on UFOs 1169 00:50:54,670 --> 00:50:50,690 documenting the evidence was in June of 1170 00:50:57,130 --> 00:50:54,680 2018 and the title of it is finally 1171 00:51:01,300 --> 00:50:57,140 Richard C Doty's United States Air Force 1172 00:51:02,859 --> 00:51:01,310 service records well nearly and wanted 1173 00:51:04,420 --> 00:51:02,869 to ask you a question about that before 1174 00:51:09,609 --> 00:51:04,430 you cover that just a little bit and 1175 00:51:11,650 --> 00:51:09,619 that is is it true and that when if FOIA 1176 00:51:16,030 --> 00:51:11,660 requests were put forth regarding 1177 00:51:18,730 --> 00:51:16,040 Richard Doty do you believe it's 1178 00:51:24,599 --> 00:51:18,740 possible that the agency or agencies 1179 00:51:26,740 --> 00:51:24,609 that released the documentation on Doty 1180 00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:26,750 accidentally gave too too much 1181 00:51:32,740 --> 00:51:31,280 information yes before you answer that 1182 00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:32,750 one asks you if they gave too much 1183 00:51:39,190 --> 00:51:36,410 information do you secretly believe it's 1184 00:51:44,730 --> 00:51:39,200 possible it's because the individual or 1185 00:51:48,849 --> 00:51:44,740 individuals that granted those documents 1186 00:51:50,620 --> 00:51:48,859 did not know what they were doing that's 1187 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:50,630 yeah I have thought about this quite a 1188 00:51:54,990 --> 00:51:53,210 bit it's a good question I can tell you 1189 00:51:56,550 --> 00:51:55,000 this right now the the Richard Doty 1190 00:51:58,530 --> 00:51:56,560 records I didn't obviously get them out 1191 00:52:01,410 --> 00:51:58,540 what actually happened was researcher 1192 00:52:04,410 --> 00:52:01,420 Larry Bryant he he he had he actually 1193 00:52:06,090 --> 00:52:04,420 wrote a number of FOI requests who I 1194 00:52:07,650 --> 00:52:06,100 think it was like I look it was one of 1195 00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:07,660 the airbase wings and one of the afar's 1196 00:52:11,550 --> 00:52:09,210 he detachments and one of the 1197 00:52:13,230 --> 00:52:11,560 administrative squadrons at Kirkland Air 1198 00:52:15,060 --> 00:52:13,240 Force Base and Bolling Air Force Base 1199 00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:15,070 headquarters opposed in so on he wrote 1200 00:52:19,830 --> 00:52:17,440 yeah he wrote a CAF UFO are a question 1201 00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:19,840 and he got this sort of this sort of 1202 00:52:27,210 --> 00:52:23,910 mixed sort of dissimilar a batch of 1203 00:52:30,060 --> 00:52:27,220 records particularly quite old records 1204 00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:30,070 on on Richard Doty there is Staff 1205 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:31,690 Sergeant Richard Doty he he got all this 1206 00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:33,010 stuff out look there was a good I can't 1207 00:52:36,810 --> 00:52:34,720 remember forty pages or something thirty 1208 00:52:39,090 --> 00:52:36,820 pages and I can tell you two things I 1209 00:52:42,090 --> 00:52:39,100 can tell you now if if someone like me 1210 00:52:43,770 --> 00:52:42,100 or whatever tried that now there is 1211 00:52:45,420 --> 00:52:43,780 every chance that they would not release 1212 00:52:48,060 --> 00:52:45,430 them because because we've got the 1213 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:48,070 Privacy Act now I mean back in 1988 when 1214 00:52:51,450 --> 00:52:49,930 Larry Bryant got that material released 1215 00:52:53,850 --> 00:52:51,460 the Privacy Act was much weaker than 1216 00:52:55,770 --> 00:52:53,860 what it is now now it's very very strong 1217 00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:55,780 everyone's everyone's hypnotized by this 1218 00:52:59,280 --> 00:52:57,610 Privacy Act everyone's terrified to 1219 00:53:01,380 --> 00:52:59,290 release anything on anyone's privacy and 1220 00:53:03,390 --> 00:53:01,390 those records are quite specific I mean 1221 00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:03,400 those Richard Doty records they'd they 1222 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:05,410 discuss what sort of tickets he had like 1223 00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:08,170 like courses qualifications you know 1224 00:53:13,170 --> 00:53:10,090 what sort of aptitude testing he was 1225 00:53:16,230 --> 00:53:13,180 doing his his his exact places of tours 1226 00:53:19,550 --> 00:53:16,240 of duty right down to the to specific 1227 00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:19,560 dates various that the names of various 1228 00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:21,730 students going through courses that were 1229 00:53:26,130 --> 00:53:24,400 with him addresses all this sort of 1230 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:26,140 stuff it was it was it was quite an 1231 00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:28,210 eye-opener and um but I can tell you 1232 00:53:32,820 --> 00:53:30,250 right now that there is no way it will 1233 00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:32,830 almost no way that a fuzzy or Kirkland 1234 00:53:38,370 --> 00:53:36,400 Air Force bases administrative airbase 1235 00:53:40,380 --> 00:53:38,380 wings records would be released now I 1236 00:53:42,750 --> 00:53:40,390 just I mean they may be released but 1237 00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:42,760 with huge reductions like massive pages 1238 00:53:48,030 --> 00:53:45,910 of black ink all over them and a fancy 1239 00:53:49,860 --> 00:53:48,040 other bit of the question and the person 1240 00:53:51,870 --> 00:53:49,870 who released them to Larry Bryant I 1241 00:53:56,700 --> 00:53:51,880 would I mean it would be nice to think 1242 00:53:58,080 --> 00:53:56,710 that that that they that they were and 1243 00:53:59,610 --> 00:53:58,090 there's possibility that they release 1244 00:54:01,470 --> 00:53:59,620 them because they knew exactly what they 1245 00:54:04,620 --> 00:54:01,480 were doing because doping was then by 1246 00:54:06,990 --> 00:54:04,630 somewhat well-known in media circles in 1247 00:54:08,490 --> 00:54:07,000 UFO community but probably more likely 1248 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:08,500 the person who 1249 00:54:14,010 --> 00:54:10,210 those documents and redacted some of 1250 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:14,020 them were simply rushed they were there 1251 00:54:16,950 --> 00:54:15,490 you know there may be a lot of personnel 1252 00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:16,960 records were being released at the time 1253 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:18,310 and this was just another batch you know 1254 00:54:21,270 --> 00:54:19,450 who knows I don't know 1255 00:54:22,770 --> 00:54:21,280 Larry Bryant would know better mean but 1256 00:54:24,540 --> 00:54:22,780 that that was that release was in 1257 00:54:27,690 --> 00:54:24,550 nineteen eighty eight which is which is 1258 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:27,700 I guess you know some thirty years ago 1259 00:54:32,550 --> 00:54:30,850 or so so III I wouldn't mind saying I 1260 00:54:34,740 --> 00:54:32,560 wouldn't mind saying you know what else 1261 00:54:36,090 --> 00:54:34,750 what what I mean they must have they 1262 00:54:37,620 --> 00:54:36,100 must have had a lot of material that 1263 00:54:41,610 --> 00:54:37,630 they didn't release in the form of 1264 00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:41,620 probably quite dry stuff like you know 1265 00:54:45,390 --> 00:54:43,210 like applications for annual leave and 1266 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:45,400 sickness reports and like medical 1267 00:54:49,860 --> 00:54:47,530 incidences and an Occupational Health 1268 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:49,870 and Safety and everytime in the USA of 1269 00:54:53,490 --> 00:54:51,490 course every time you fall over every 1270 00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:53,500 time you put a bandaid on every time you 1271 00:54:56,310 --> 00:54:55,090 come like for work every time you're 1272 00:54:59,310 --> 00:54:56,320 suspected of being under the influence 1273 00:55:01,470 --> 00:54:59,320 of alcohol every time you know you you 1274 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:01,480 you fail to appear at a meeting or fail 1275 00:55:05,490 --> 00:55:04,090 to write down you know it's it's so much 1276 00:55:07,350 --> 00:55:05,500 as recorded and and some of that 1277 00:55:09,300 --> 00:55:07,360 material will be very dry and probably 1278 00:55:12,390 --> 00:55:09,310 destroyed by now and someone but I don't 1279 00:55:13,740 --> 00:55:12,400 know you know I I never heard from 1280 00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:13,750 Richard Doty on that when I released 1281 00:55:17,910 --> 00:55:16,210 that stuff I don't know why Larry Bryan 1282 00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:17,920 didn't release it years ago and I don't 1283 00:55:25,130 --> 00:55:22,330 know why what yeah when I released that 1284 00:55:27,210 --> 00:55:25,140 stuff on my blog and put it put it out 1285 00:55:29,130 --> 00:55:27,220 III would have thought Richard Doty 1286 00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:29,140 himself would actually sort of say 1287 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:30,490 something to me because I have spoken to 1288 00:55:35,790 --> 00:55:33,370 him before but he never did so either he 1289 00:55:37,110 --> 00:55:35,800 didn't care or he you know I thought it 1290 00:55:38,460 --> 00:55:37,120 was a bit of a laugh or maybe he was 1291 00:55:41,660 --> 00:55:38,470 annoyed but just couldn't do anything 1292 00:55:49,980 --> 00:55:44,580 strange I wanted to bring up just a 1293 00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:49,990 little bit on Larry Bryant who kind of 1294 00:55:54,420 --> 00:55:52,000 stays under the radar he's not a person 1295 00:55:57,090 --> 00:55:54,430 who seeks attention as you know but he 1296 00:56:00,270 --> 00:55:57,100 has been prolific as a rioter and a 1297 00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:00,280 researcher dedicated to his UFO blog 1298 00:56:04,350 --> 00:56:02,410 which he kept for many years and I'm 1299 00:56:07,020 --> 00:56:04,360 just going to read a little bit on him 1300 00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:07,030 that just kind of interesting I actually 1301 00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:09,040 wrote an article regarding the CIA 1302 00:56:11,700 --> 00:56:10,450 archive so I'm just going to read a 1303 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:11,710 little bit from that article and Larry 1304 00:56:15,390 --> 00:56:13,330 Bryant a well-known researcher of 1305 00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:15,400 ufology who ended up in the CIA archives 1306 00:56:20,130 --> 00:56:18,160 was writer Larry W Bryant his strange 1307 00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:20,140 court case an application has been filed 1308 00:56:23,940 --> 00:56:22,000 in court here demanding that 1309 00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:23,950 Air Force release the remains of the 1310 00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:25,690 extraterrestrial being or beings it 1311 00:56:29,910 --> 00:56:28,090 alleged to be holding in secret custody 1312 00:56:33,870 --> 00:56:29,920 Pentagon officials said today that's a 1313 00:56:35,660 --> 00:56:33,880 really old article by the way and this 1314 00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:35,670 cures curious article written for 1315 00:56:41,370 --> 00:56:39,090 Reuters published in that July 14 1983 1316 00:56:43,260 --> 00:56:41,380 details an alleged abduction of 1317 00:56:45,450 --> 00:56:43,270 extraterrestrial creatures by the US 1318 00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:45,460 government mr. bright was a former 1319 00:56:51,060 --> 00:56:48,370 director for the Washington DC office of 1320 00:56:53,460 --> 00:56:51,070 citizens against UFO secrecy 1321 00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:53,470 he was also a civilian federal employee 1322 00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:54,730 for over 30 years 1323 00:56:58,110 --> 00:56:56,410 Bryant has researched the area of 1324 00:57:00,210 --> 00:56:58,120 ufology for many years from his home in 1325 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:00,220 Alexandria Virginia he has published 1326 00:57:04,290 --> 00:57:02,650 hundreds of articles these reports I 1327 00:57:06,090 --> 00:57:04,300 believe it's actually thousands but 1328 00:57:08,610 --> 00:57:06,100 anyway these reports range from personal 1329 00:57:10,170 --> 00:57:08,620 to long sought after FOIA requests as 1330 00:57:12,300 --> 00:57:10,180 though the reports are empirical and 1331 00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:12,310 investigative research regarding ufology 1332 00:57:17,460 --> 00:57:15,760 and et subject matters mr. brian has an 1333 00:57:21,210 --> 00:57:17,470 extensive blog which can be found on 1334 00:57:22,950 --> 00:57:21,220 tumblr anyway that article goes on the 1335 00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:22,960 detailed extraordinary case regarding 1336 00:57:26,940 --> 00:57:25,090 ETS in the US military which can be 1337 00:57:29,940 --> 00:57:26,950 found in the CIA archives who wanted to 1338 00:57:32,850 --> 00:57:29,950 ask you fellow researcher Larry Bryant 1339 00:57:35,790 --> 00:57:32,860 what do you think gave him the impetus 1340 00:57:40,230 --> 00:57:35,800 to ask for any kind of FOIA related 1341 00:57:43,110 --> 00:57:40,240 records on Doty because he was a 1342 00:57:46,410 --> 00:57:43,120 prolific if I were a request over one it 1343 00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:46,420 would be absolutely a no surprise that I 1344 00:57:52,650 --> 00:57:47,890 mean he wouldn't have been the only one 1345 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:52,660 I mean Richard Doty's name and myth with 1346 00:57:57,330 --> 00:57:55,450 as being a Anna fuzzy 1347 00:57:59,640 --> 00:57:57,340 counterintelligence or intelligence 1348 00:58:03,780 --> 00:57:59,650 officer was well-known by the late 1349 00:58:05,490 --> 00:58:03,790 eighties he you know he's his role in 1350 00:58:07,620 --> 00:58:05,500 the so-called bennewitz affair and and 1351 00:58:09,210 --> 00:58:07,630 and UFOs at Kirkland Air Force Base and 1352 00:58:13,020 --> 00:58:09,220 maybe at other sites have been well 1353 00:58:15,180 --> 00:58:13,030 known by then Doty was extremely well 1354 00:58:18,780 --> 00:58:15,190 known so researchers like Hurley Graham 1355 00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:18,790 and Bill Moore so I mean Larry Bryant as 1356 00:58:23,670 --> 00:58:21,970 a researcher was already well and said 1357 00:58:25,950 --> 00:58:23,680 well in the 80s was already submitting 1358 00:58:28,740 --> 00:58:25,960 FOI requests and and doing general 1359 00:58:31,230 --> 00:58:28,750 archival searching so so I don't know I 1360 00:58:32,630 --> 00:58:31,240 don't know what particular impetus or 1361 00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:32,640 stimulus 1362 00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:37,410 hey he gots who to fi y fo Z or anyone 1363 00:58:40,700 --> 00:58:39,450 else I'm Richard Doty especially but I 1364 00:58:42,349 --> 00:58:40,710 mean it would be unthinkable that 1365 00:58:46,279 --> 00:58:42,359 someone wouldn't and just say happen to 1366 00:58:47,809 --> 00:58:46,289 be the guy yeah well thank you very much 1367 00:58:50,029 --> 00:58:47,819 for having covered that topic it's 1368 00:58:52,279 --> 00:58:50,039 fascinating also wanted to bring up an 1369 00:58:54,109 --> 00:58:52,289 interesting topic add that we were 1370 00:58:56,750 --> 00:58:54,119 talking about before the show and that 1371 00:58:59,690 --> 00:58:56,760 is oddball UFO researcher Armond 1372 00:59:03,380 --> 00:58:59,700 Victorian from the 1990s can you talk a 1373 00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:03,390 little bit about that topic yes so this 1374 00:59:13,700 --> 00:59:06,569 is an interesting one so like I was 1375 00:59:16,549 --> 00:59:13,710 saying oh boy so so the RAF filing diols 1376 00:59:18,170 --> 00:59:16,559 mission which is a ballistic missile 1377 00:59:20,089 --> 00:59:18,180 ballistic missile early warning missile 1378 00:59:22,759 --> 00:59:20,099 detection space object detection mission 1379 00:59:26,210 --> 00:59:22,769 in England over the years it has 1380 00:59:29,140 --> 00:59:26,220 reported variously to NORAD Aerospace 1381 00:59:34,339 --> 00:59:29,150 Defense Command the old US Space Command 1382 00:59:35,870 --> 00:59:34,349 14th Air Force and so on right so the 1383 00:59:39,620 --> 00:59:35,880 ballistic missile early warning system 1384 00:59:41,690 --> 00:59:39,630 the three sites make up three make up a 1385 00:59:43,210 --> 00:59:41,700 small portion of what we call the US 1386 00:59:46,910 --> 00:59:43,220 government's Space Surveillance Network 1387 00:59:49,339 --> 00:59:46,920 SSN so the Space Surveillance Network in 1388 00:59:51,620 --> 00:59:49,349 the 90s for example was made up of 22 1389 00:59:53,150 --> 00:59:51,630 Space Surveillance sites the ballistic 1390 00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:53,160 missile early warning system sites were 1391 00:59:58,339 --> 00:59:54,720 just three of them there was another you 1392 01:00:00,980 --> 00:59:58,349 know 19 or whatever now that it the 1393 01:00:04,940 --> 01:00:00,990 entire SSN Network the entire Space 1394 01:00:08,870 --> 01:00:04,950 Surveillance Network back in the back in 1395 01:00:11,690 --> 01:00:08,880 the 90s it was the entire the entire 1396 01:00:14,839 --> 01:00:11,700 thing was functionally and operationally 1397 01:00:17,269 --> 01:00:14,849 governed by a huge document an 1398 01:00:20,799 --> 01:00:17,279 absolutely vital document classified 1399 01:00:24,769 --> 01:00:20,809 secret it was called US Space Command 1400 01:00:27,319 --> 01:00:24,779 regulation 55 - 12 Operations Space 1401 01:00:30,999 --> 01:00:27,329 Surveillance Network SSN right that's 1402 01:00:33,740 --> 01:00:31,009 what the document was called now back in 1403 01:00:35,210 --> 01:00:33,750 and that was that the particular version 1404 01:00:37,039 --> 01:00:35,220 of the document we've got was published 1405 01:00:39,769 --> 01:00:37,049 on the 1st of June 1992 it was 1406 01:00:43,339 --> 01:00:39,779 classified by multiple sources as secret 1407 01:00:46,220 --> 01:00:43,349 and and it's a it's you know a 200 page 1408 01:00:49,250 --> 01:00:46,230 document anyway back in the 1409 01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:49,260 back in the 1990s some listeners may 1410 01:00:53,690 --> 01:00:51,570 remember that there was a curious very 1411 01:00:57,050 --> 01:00:53,700 unusual researcher in England by the 1412 01:00:58,609 --> 01:00:57,060 name of her dr. Armond Victorian right 1413 01:00:59,990 --> 01:00:58,619 some people will not know who the hell 1414 01:01:01,790 --> 01:01:00,000 I'm talking about and some people will 1415 01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:01,800 shake their heads and say oh boy this 1416 01:01:07,940 --> 01:01:04,530 guy so Armin Victorian was really 1417 01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:07,950 bizarre so Arman Arman was well he was 1418 01:01:15,530 --> 01:01:11,490 born in Soviet Armenia in the 60s he 1419 01:01:18,260 --> 01:01:15,540 fled Soviet Armenia for a run in the 70s 1420 01:01:21,140 --> 01:01:18,270 he's his actual real name was Habib as 1421 01:01:24,170 --> 01:01:21,150 that Adel he fled Iran and United 1422 01:01:26,930 --> 01:01:24,180 Kingdom some time in I think about 1979 1423 01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:26,940 he changed his name to Henry as that 1424 01:01:31,730 --> 01:01:29,760 Adel then he decided he was interested 1425 01:01:34,250 --> 01:01:31,740 in two things he was interested in 1426 01:01:37,430 --> 01:01:34,260 orchids as in the plants like flowers 1427 01:01:40,099 --> 01:01:37,440 and he was interested in UFOs and he was 1428 01:01:43,390 --> 01:01:40,109 very very good at both of them I'm in 1429 01:01:45,950 --> 01:01:43,400 Victorian stir started flooding 1430 01:01:47,810 --> 01:01:45,960 he called himself dr. Ehrman Victorian 1431 01:01:51,020 --> 01:01:47,820 he also went under other names like 1432 01:01:51,650 --> 01:01:51,030 Colin Baker cassava Anna tumba if you 1433 01:01:56,620 --> 01:01:51,660 can believe that 1434 01:02:00,349 --> 01:01:56,630 an African name he started flowing the 1435 01:02:02,660 --> 01:02:00,359 British Vince industrial complex and and 1436 01:02:04,579 --> 01:02:02,670 in the u.s. is like America's military 1437 01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:04,589 started flooding them with FOI requests 1438 01:02:10,099 --> 01:02:07,410 and he was so dogmatic he was so clever 1439 01:02:10,970 --> 01:02:10,109 and so determined and he just came along 1440 01:02:12,710 --> 01:02:10,980 at the right time 1441 01:02:14,599 --> 01:02:12,720 whenever while laws were quite lacks and 1442 01:02:15,950 --> 01:02:14,609 he started flooding them with ever wire 1443 01:02:18,349 --> 01:02:15,960 requests and he started and he actually 1444 01:02:20,359 --> 01:02:18,359 got some incredible results he was the 1445 01:02:23,540 --> 01:02:20,369 first person to identify John Alexander 1446 01:02:26,030 --> 01:02:23,550 as being part of a so-called non-lethal 1447 01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:26,040 weapons testing and long-long non-lethal 1448 01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:28,530 weapons and psychic warfare development 1449 01:02:35,329 --> 01:02:30,690 within the army he was the first person 1450 01:02:38,329 --> 01:02:35,339 to associate so-called op rep 3 reports 1451 01:02:40,550 --> 01:02:38,339 with UFO so operatory reports are a type 1452 01:02:42,950 --> 01:02:40,560 of reporting within the US Air Force's 1453 01:02:45,050 --> 01:02:42,960 reporting network that you that officers 1454 01:02:48,109 --> 01:02:45,060 can reduce to report UFOs and indeed 1455 01:02:51,250 --> 01:02:48,119 have almond Victorian was also the first 1456 01:02:54,410 --> 01:02:51,260 person to identify the proper name for 1457 01:02:56,420 --> 01:02:54,420 an unknown object in space and that 1458 01:02:59,540 --> 01:02:56,430 unknown object in space the proper term 1459 01:03:01,880 --> 01:02:59,550 is an uncorrelated target right you see 1460 01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:01,890 two uncorrelated target the way he did 1461 01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:06,570 that was in in 1992 in Victorian asked 1462 01:03:11,540 --> 01:03:09,090 us Space command's public relations an 1463 01:03:13,550 --> 01:03:11,550 FOI desk he asked them for a copy of 1464 01:03:15,350 --> 01:03:13,560 that document I just ran out before he'd 1465 01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:15,360 obviously seen it somewhere it's seen a 1466 01:03:19,190 --> 01:03:17,010 reference to it like I said it was 1467 01:03:21,020 --> 01:03:19,200 called US Space Command regulation 55 - 1468 01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:21,030 12 operation Space Surveillance Network 1469 01:03:30,110 --> 01:03:24,810 SSN classified secret Armen asked them 1470 01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:30,120 for a copy and and amazingly they gave 1471 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:31,770 it to him there were reductions we do 1472 01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:34,170 have a copy of Armand Victorians copy we 1473 01:03:37,910 --> 01:03:35,850 do have a copy there are full of 1474 01:03:42,590 --> 01:03:37,920 reductions it's all about unidentified 1475 01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:42,600 eye detection in space uncorrelated 1476 01:03:47,090 --> 01:03:44,640 targets in space the criticality of 1477 01:03:48,530 --> 01:03:47,100 unidentified objects in space how to 1478 01:03:50,150 --> 01:03:48,540 process them through the system how to 1479 01:03:52,580 --> 01:03:50,160 draw them or write them down how to 1480 01:03:54,350 --> 01:03:52,590 store radar data how to report unknown 1481 01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:54,360 objects in space to NORAD and US Space 1482 01:03:58,400 --> 01:03:55,890 Command headquarters from the the 1483 01:04:00,590 --> 01:03:58,410 individual space detection facilities 1484 01:04:02,110 --> 01:04:00,600 how to keep NASA in the loop and so on 1485 01:04:04,730 --> 01:04:02,120 it's 100 you know 200 page document 1486 01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:04,740 anyway within there on the very very 1487 01:04:09,770 --> 01:04:07,170 first page one of the things that it 1488 01:04:12,050 --> 01:04:09,780 offers it basically says that the entire 1489 01:04:14,570 --> 01:04:12,060 Space Surveillance Network is under the 1490 01:04:17,210 --> 01:04:14,580 purview of US Space Command of NORAD 1491 01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:17,220 except one site and that site is RAF 1492 01:04:23,060 --> 01:04:19,440 filing girls and that's what gave me the 1493 01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:23,070 idea originally really took over falling 1494 01:04:28,070 --> 01:04:25,650 down so on the on the front page so 1495 01:04:30,860 --> 01:04:28,080 really Armin Victorians work in the in 1496 01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:30,870 the in the 90s which which gave me the 1497 01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:33,450 idea to to harass the Ministry of 1498 01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:34,650 Defense for their documents on 1499 01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:36,480 rappelling girls because what it 1500 01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:38,160 actually says on the front cover of US 1501 01:04:44,180 --> 01:04:41,370 Space Command regulation 5512 it 1502 01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:44,190 actually says this regulation provides 1503 01:04:47,540 --> 01:04:46,290 policy and guidance for operations of 1504 01:04:50,570 --> 01:04:47,550 the worldwide Space Surveillance Network 1505 01:04:53,030 --> 01:04:50,580 or SSN it applies to headquarters US 1506 01:04:54,380 --> 01:04:53,040 Space Command the component commands 1507 01:04:56,510 --> 01:04:54,390 being headquarters Air Force Space 1508 01:04:58,460 --> 01:04:56,520 Command naval Space Command and Army's 1509 01:04:59,540 --> 01:04:58,470 space command the space surveillance 1510 01:05:01,610 --> 01:04:59,550 center and the ultimate space 1511 01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:01,620 surveillance center and the SS and 1512 01:05:09,340 --> 01:05:05,010 sensor sites except RAF foiling dials 1513 01:05:11,210 --> 01:05:09,350 then it says RAF filing has an acronym 1514 01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:11,220 raffling doles follows different 1515 01:05:21,250 --> 01:05:13,530 guidance specified in 1516 01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:21,260 ss-sorry sr55 1 2 2 / 8 8 7 7 1 / 7 / GE 1517 01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:25,050 bracket s close bracket joint usf joint 1518 01:05:29,300 --> 01:05:27,330 US Air Force Royal Air Force operations 1519 01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:29,310 manual Jo M ballistic missile early 1520 01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:32,850 warning system site 3 RAF England so 1521 01:05:36,590 --> 01:05:35,010 when I saw that when I saw that years 1522 01:05:38,990 --> 01:05:36,600 ago I thought hold on this is cool 1523 01:05:40,820 --> 01:05:39,000 so RAF filing nails England follows 1524 01:05:42,590 --> 01:05:40,830 slightly different guidance than the 1525 01:05:45,230 --> 01:05:42,600 rest of the space violence network sites 1526 01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:45,240 so it was originally that's what got me 1527 01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:47,010 interested and now I've asked for a copy 1528 01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:48,930 of that document and they've knocked me 1529 01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:49,290 back 1530 01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:51,410 it's the document still actually exists 1531 01:05:56,090 --> 01:05:54,090 it's actually changes names a few times 1532 01:05:58,220 --> 01:05:56,100 over the years but so the RAF filing 1533 01:05:59,540 --> 01:05:58,230 dolls operating manual that still exists 1534 01:06:01,760 --> 01:05:59,550 but I've been knocked back for copies of 1535 01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:01,770 that and then further today they're like 1536 01:06:07,450 --> 01:06:03,570 further in currently in the 2000 and 1537 01:06:10,460 --> 01:06:07,460 2010 I've asked us Stratcom for the old 1538 01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:10,470 US Space Command 50 5-12 document 1539 01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:11,610 they've knocked me back for that as well 1540 01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:13,170 even though they released it to almond 1541 01:06:17,810 --> 01:06:15,930 Victorian right back in the 90s so you 1542 01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:17,820 know so it's just funny how a UFO 1543 01:06:21,980 --> 01:06:20,010 researcher in England who wasn't English 1544 01:06:23,750 --> 01:06:21,990 at all he was Iranian he stumbled a 1545 01:06:25,340 --> 01:06:23,760 product across these documents and 1546 01:06:27,290 --> 01:06:25,350 references to other documents and we're 1547 01:06:30,530 --> 01:06:27,300 still using them now as researchers and 1548 01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:30,540 we still can't get them out I wanted to 1549 01:06:36,140 --> 01:06:32,490 ask you a little bit more about arm and 1550 01:06:39,370 --> 01:06:36,150 Victorian alias Henry as a head doll is 1551 01:06:46,670 --> 01:06:44,870 I can say I'm not even gonna bust have a 1552 01:06:47,420 --> 01:06:46,680 fit if I even bother trying to say those 1553 01:06:50,830 --> 01:06:47,430 names I'm sorry 1554 01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:50,840 alias casaba and tomba and many others 1555 01:06:56,630 --> 01:06:53,250 thank you 1556 01:07:00,980 --> 01:06:56,640 also apparently allegedly an orchid 1557 01:07:04,670 --> 01:07:00,990 smuggler sheerest and kind of a creepy 1558 01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:04,680 all-around guy of yes armenian of 1559 01:07:17,540 --> 01:07:08,970 Armenian ancestry and allegedly a former 1560 01:07:20,300 --> 01:07:17,550 operative of the Shah of Iran yeah but I 1561 01:07:23,990 --> 01:07:20,310 don't know how verifiable that that 1562 01:07:26,279 --> 01:07:24,000 alleged last bit is not right but I'll 1563 01:07:28,499 --> 01:07:26,289 tell you what okay yeah 1564 01:07:30,239 --> 01:07:28,509 so I look I know a fair bit about this 1565 01:07:32,279 --> 01:07:30,249 guy I actually it's it's really bizarre 1566 01:07:34,739 --> 01:07:32,289 because he just came into the field he 1567 01:07:36,959 --> 01:07:34,749 so he was indeed an orchid smuggler he 1568 01:07:38,609 --> 01:07:36,969 actually went to the Philippines and 1569 01:07:40,589 --> 01:07:38,619 other places we'll put it this way look 1570 01:07:42,209 --> 01:07:40,599 you can believe the myth that he was an 1571 01:07:44,189 --> 01:07:42,219 orchid smuggler right but it turns out 1572 01:07:47,099 --> 01:07:44,199 Zak actually true because not once but 1573 01:07:49,049 --> 01:07:47,109 twice he was actually hauled up in court 1574 01:07:51,509 --> 01:07:49,059 at the Old Bailey in England in London 1575 01:07:53,429 --> 01:07:51,519 on orchid smuggling charges and he 1576 01:07:55,079 --> 01:07:53,439 actually did go to jail now I think it 1577 01:07:56,069 --> 01:07:55,089 was a suspended sentence which means he 1578 01:07:58,140 --> 01:07:56,079 would have been put under house arrest 1579 01:07:59,759 --> 01:07:58,150 course the jails are full but the point 1580 01:08:01,319 --> 01:07:59,769 is he actually was charged and convicted 1581 01:08:03,329 --> 01:08:01,329 of all could smuggling I think there 1582 01:08:05,489 --> 01:08:03,339 were three charges one was dropped but 1583 01:08:07,709 --> 01:08:05,499 the other two were stood up the other 1584 01:08:09,029 --> 01:08:07,719 thing about him is is that that over the 1585 01:08:10,679 --> 01:08:09,039 years look there are people that 1586 01:08:14,099 --> 01:08:10,689 remember him and who actually do know 1587 01:08:15,809 --> 01:08:14,109 him would did know him and he he 1588 01:08:17,819 --> 01:08:15,819 actually also was busted on 1589 01:08:19,919 --> 01:08:17,829 phone-tapping so it wasn't so much 1590 01:08:23,519 --> 01:08:19,929 foreign tapping it was more he was 1591 01:08:25,260 --> 01:08:23,529 actually he was actually getting free 1592 01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:25,270 free international phone calls by 1593 01:08:29,399 --> 01:08:27,130 mucking around with the telephone lines 1594 01:08:31,319 --> 01:08:29,409 in the street so he was basically making 1595 01:08:33,780 --> 01:08:31,329 tell of international telephone calls 1596 01:08:35,249 --> 01:08:33,790 around the world but but someone else 1597 01:08:36,930 --> 01:08:35,259 was getting the bill or British Telecom 1598 01:08:41,099 --> 01:08:36,940 was having to pay for it it was funny 1599 01:08:42,629 --> 01:08:41,109 because Boston based research Barry 1600 01:08:44,549 --> 01:08:42,639 Greenwood used to talk to him quite a 1601 01:08:46,349 --> 01:08:44,559 lot on the phone and Barry said to me 1602 01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:46,359 once Barry Barry didn't know all this 1603 01:08:50,789 --> 01:08:48,489 phone tapping or phone hijacking stuff 1604 01:08:52,140 --> 01:08:50,799 but Barry said to me once years ago he 1605 01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:52,150 said to me you know I never really 1606 01:08:57,599 --> 01:08:54,880 understood how Armin could afford so 1607 01:08:58,979 --> 01:08:57,609 many phone calls to me in most was back 1608 01:09:00,510 --> 01:08:58,989 then international back in the 90s 1609 01:09:04,079 --> 01:09:00,520 international phone calls very expensive 1610 01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:04,089 and especially in peak times and Barry 1611 01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:05,650 said to me yeah I don't know how he 1612 01:09:09,780 --> 01:09:07,449 afforded these phone calls three times a 1613 01:09:11,309 --> 01:09:09,790 week to all of us and and I said well 1614 01:09:14,490 --> 01:09:11,319 don't you know about the phone tapping 1615 01:09:16,740 --> 01:09:14,500 charges and yeah and but someone else I 1616 01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:16,750 know who knew Armin Victorians said no 1617 01:09:20,339 --> 01:09:17,650 this is interesting 1618 01:09:23,039 --> 01:09:20,349 said he had suitcases full of 1619 01:09:25,530 --> 01:09:23,049 international money so he had suitcases 1620 01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:25,540 full of Iranian and Italian and British 1621 01:09:30,299 --> 01:09:28,449 money and he also had multiple passports 1622 01:09:32,970 --> 01:09:30,309 so he had fake passports he had 1623 01:09:34,499 --> 01:09:32,980 passports they were issued that we had 1624 01:09:36,959 --> 01:09:34,509 an Italian passport that was issued in 1625 01:09:38,579 --> 01:09:36,969 Rome he had an Iranian passport which 1626 01:09:39,090 --> 01:09:38,589 maybe is not so surprising and he also 1627 01:09:42,750 --> 01:09:39,100 had a 1628 01:09:46,710 --> 01:09:42,760 passport which shouldn't really mix like 1629 01:09:48,810 --> 01:09:46,720 so so he definitely he was a hey look at 1630 01:09:50,940 --> 01:09:48,820 this there is a possibility I have heard 1631 01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:50,950 that there was a possibility he actually 1632 01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:52,690 worked for the Iranian embassy in 1633 01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:54,850 England as kind of like a bit of a spide 1634 01:09:58,140 --> 01:09:56,650 like not so much spying on the British 1635 01:10:00,240 --> 01:09:58,150 government or the British civilians or 1636 01:10:02,550 --> 01:10:00,250 whatever but actually spying on embassy 1637 01:10:05,190 --> 01:10:02,560 staff so the Iranian the Iranian embassy 1638 01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:05,200 has all in in London has always been 1639 01:10:09,270 --> 01:10:07,210 fraught with problems you know Iranian 1640 01:10:11,010 --> 01:10:09,280 embassy has always had its diplomats you 1641 01:10:13,380 --> 01:10:11,020 know smoking drugs and gambling and 1642 01:10:16,020 --> 01:10:13,390 carrying on and I have heard by the 1643 01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:16,030 great fund that Armen was employed by 1644 01:10:20,910 --> 01:10:18,730 the Iranian government to keep some of 1645 01:10:22,980 --> 01:10:20,920 the office workers at the Iranian 1646 01:10:24,420 --> 01:10:22,990 embassy in London in check basically see 1647 01:10:26,190 --> 01:10:24,430 what they're up to you know if they're 1648 01:10:26,820 --> 01:10:26,200 even turning up the work that sort of 1649 01:10:28,260 --> 01:10:26,830 thing 1650 01:10:31,650 --> 01:10:28,270 but look I don't know if that's true but 1651 01:10:35,130 --> 01:10:31,660 the fact of the matter yep he's kind of 1652 01:10:37,710 --> 01:10:35,140 obviously a an eccentric guy to say the 1653 01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:37,720 least who apparently had a very strange 1654 01:10:44,790 --> 01:10:40,930 grocery list of goals and included on 1655 01:10:46,710 --> 01:10:44,800 that Bazaar list of goals was ufology 1656 01:10:49,050 --> 01:10:46,720 why do you think he even cared about 1657 01:10:51,950 --> 01:10:49,060 that topic so much apparently he pursued 1658 01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:51,960 it relentlessly I'm sure he had 1659 01:10:58,110 --> 01:10:54,970 thousands and thousands of documents on 1660 01:10:59,700 --> 01:10:58,120 that topic so I'm wondering what 1661 01:11:02,160 --> 01:10:59,710 happened all those documents who his 1662 01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:02,170 family was and where did where did that 1663 01:11:07,470 --> 01:11:06,010 estate that UFO archive estate go and 1664 01:11:09,090 --> 01:11:07,480 this is this is something that I've been 1665 01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:09,100 instrumental in trying to track down and 1666 01:11:13,170 --> 01:11:11,530 so is Isaac coin in England and a few of 1667 01:11:15,210 --> 01:11:13,180 us has it's really important a grant 1668 01:11:16,770 --> 01:11:15,220 Cameron's interested to basically what 1669 01:11:18,540 --> 01:11:16,780 happened is this is really weird I mean 1670 01:11:22,850 --> 01:11:18,550 the guy Locke have said the guy had 1671 01:11:25,620 --> 01:11:22,860 multiple passports he had multiple he 1672 01:11:27,690 --> 01:11:25,630 had money different countries he 1673 01:11:29,670 --> 01:11:27,700 possibly worked for he was interested in 1674 01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:29,680 mind control psychic warfare UFOs 1675 01:11:34,020 --> 01:11:32,290 crashed UFOs you have a retrieval nor 1676 01:11:36,690 --> 01:11:34,030 red space detection US Space Command 1677 01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:36,700 space detection whatever and all could 1678 01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:38,410 smuggler to top it off a phone tapper 1679 01:11:44,730 --> 01:11:40,450 and all of a sudden what's really 1680 01:11:46,380 --> 01:11:44,740 bizarre is in 1907 he just disappeared 1681 01:11:47,970 --> 01:11:46,390 right no one heard from him again 1682 01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:47,980 no one as far as I can tell Barry 1683 01:11:56,050 --> 01:11:52,130 Greenwood Brad sparks 1684 01:11:57,820 --> 01:11:56,060 all true or and camryn nobody heard from 1685 01:12:12,100 --> 01:11:57,830 him all of a sudden in 1997 he just 1686 01:12:13,419 --> 01:12:12,110 disappeared and the new records of that 1687 01:12:18,990 --> 01:12:13,429 though he could have spent was 1688 01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:19,000 interested in the topic or around 1689 01:12:22,959 --> 01:12:21,170 license I found someone called Armin 1690 01:12:24,790 --> 01:12:22,969 Victorian and certainly some of the 1691 01:12:26,379 --> 01:12:24,800 things he'd written back years ago on 1692 01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:26,389 Twitter certainly featured somewhat 1693 01:12:32,169 --> 01:12:30,170 defeated him so what are gene I joined 1694 01:12:35,020 --> 01:12:32,179 up to Twitter and I actually sort of 1695 01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:35,030 personally messaged this account and 18 1696 01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:36,770 months later so what two years ago yet 1697 01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:39,530 two years ago 18 months later this Armin 1698 01:12:43,540 --> 01:12:41,210 Victorian on Twitter actually wrote back 1699 01:12:45,970 --> 01:12:43,550 to me and said yes I'm a man Victorian 1700 01:12:47,379 --> 01:12:45,980 and I said I really want to get your 1701 01:12:49,959 --> 01:12:47,389 email address I want to ask you a few 1702 01:12:52,330 --> 01:12:49,969 questions so he gave me an email address 1703 01:12:54,129 --> 01:12:52,340 it was a really unusual email address 1704 01:12:56,530 --> 01:12:54,139 but I emailed it and then a few days 1705 01:12:58,540 --> 01:12:56,540 later he wrote back and and I won't 1706 01:12:59,950 --> 01:12:58,550 repeat what he wrote because it's one I 1707 01:13:00,850 --> 01:12:59,960 haven't got it in front of me and two it 1708 01:13:03,879 --> 01:13:00,860 was just so bizarre 1709 01:13:07,149 --> 01:13:03,889 he wrote really what you would call 1710 01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:07,159 almost paranoid religious fanaticism I 1711 01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:09,050 mean I can't remember what he wrote word 1712 01:13:12,370 --> 01:13:10,850 for word but he talked about aliens 1713 01:13:14,169 --> 01:13:12,380 being here for thousands of years he 1714 01:13:15,910 --> 01:13:14,179 talked about yeah he talked about 1715 01:13:17,590 --> 01:13:15,920 ancient civilizations he talked about 1716 01:13:19,959 --> 01:13:17,600 God he talked about the devil he 1717 01:13:22,300 --> 01:13:19,969 whatever it was really bizarre I mean it 1718 01:13:24,879 --> 01:13:22,310 was one of the most wacked-out and 1719 01:13:27,100 --> 01:13:24,889 almost it was fanatical it was bizarre 1720 01:13:30,430 --> 01:13:27,110 I'm just laughing because it's an 1721 01:13:32,050 --> 01:13:30,440 interesting response back look either I 1722 01:13:33,700 --> 01:13:32,060 don't even know if it was him I don't 1723 01:13:35,620 --> 01:13:33,710 know if it was him to this day I do 1724 01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:35,630 viii the email address means nothing 1725 01:13:40,180 --> 01:13:37,250 it's just it's just a bizarre email 1726 01:13:42,729 --> 01:13:40,190 address I actually asked I actually I 1727 01:13:44,740 --> 01:13:42,739 actually forded that it afforded that 1728 01:13:46,870 --> 01:13:44,750 email to people that knew Armin in the 1729 01:13:48,189 --> 01:13:46,880 80s and 90s and they said look 1730 01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:48,199 personally I just don't think it's him 1731 01:13:51,399 --> 01:13:49,850 he but something Barry Greenwood I 1732 01:13:52,750 --> 01:13:51,409 remember Barry Greenwood came back to me 1733 01:13:54,399 --> 01:13:52,760 because Barry had a lot to do with our 1734 01:13:56,370 --> 01:13:54,409 Victorian Barry Greenwood came back to 1735 01:13:59,770 --> 01:13:56,380 me and said look Armin was already very 1736 01:14:03,910 --> 01:13:59,780 Armin was or always quite flowery in his 1737 01:14:05,860 --> 01:14:03,920 language but never this bad do you think 1738 01:14:08,830 --> 01:14:05,870 it's just possible 1739 01:14:11,470 --> 01:14:08,840 is that he he may have hear me out on 1740 01:14:13,330 --> 01:14:11,480 this I used this term loosely but the 1741 01:14:16,450 --> 01:14:13,340 way mental illness do you think it's 1742 01:14:18,310 --> 01:14:16,460 possible that he succumbed to a form of 1743 01:14:21,940 --> 01:14:18,320 mental illness that caused him to have 1744 01:14:25,890 --> 01:14:21,950 word salad and rant and maybe you know 1745 01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:25,900 his emotional IQ in his response 1746 01:14:42,940 --> 01:14:37,210 compromised his ability to have or and 1747 01:14:44,470 --> 01:14:42,950 conversation with with the Tor account 1748 01:14:46,180 --> 01:14:44,480 in the emails over because anyone can 1749 01:14:48,490 --> 01:14:46,190 make up a Twitter account called Armin 1750 01:14:49,810 --> 01:14:48,500 Victorian a very very well-known guy I 1751 01:14:52,420 --> 01:14:49,820 mean he really was very well known in 1752 01:14:54,370 --> 01:14:52,430 UFO circles well-known in the in rare 1753 01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:54,380 rare plant species circles he had a 1754 01:14:58,150 --> 01:14:56,570 criminal record he's he's had magazine 1755 01:14:59,890 --> 01:14:58,160 articles written about him what anyone 1756 01:15:02,470 --> 01:14:59,900 could either I was dealing with a troll 1757 01:15:04,810 --> 01:15:02,480 who wasn't him whose God knows who 1758 01:15:07,090 --> 01:15:04,820 oh it was actually him and he is totally 1759 01:15:09,100 --> 01:15:07,100 succumbed to paranoia and mental illness 1760 01:15:10,780 --> 01:15:09,110 I mean like I said what I got back in 1761 01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:10,790 the form of that email was just 1762 01:15:17,100 --> 01:15:13,610 absolutely bizarre now look I spoke to 1763 01:15:19,480 --> 01:15:17,110 Nick Pope he almond Victorian used to 1764 01:15:20,980 --> 01:15:19,490 used to converse on the phone quite a 1765 01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:20,990 bit with Nick Pope when Nick Pope was 1766 01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:24,650 running the mo DS heir Secretariat H OS 1767 01:15:30,010 --> 01:15:27,410 cell in London 1768 01:15:31,210 --> 01:15:30,020 almond Victorian would commonly talk to 1769 01:15:33,610 --> 01:15:31,220 Nick Pope he would ring him on the phone 1770 01:15:35,950 --> 01:15:33,620 or he would send him in UFO reports that 1771 01:15:38,830 --> 01:15:35,960 he'd gotten from somewhere and Nick Nick 1772 01:15:40,420 --> 01:15:38,840 Pope always found him very strange but 1773 01:15:41,950 --> 01:15:40,430 every now and again a even Nick Pope 1774 01:15:43,480 --> 01:15:41,960 admitted to me he said every now and 1775 01:15:44,950 --> 01:15:43,490 again and would actually come out with 1776 01:15:48,010 --> 01:15:44,960 something really interesting about UFOs 1777 01:15:49,690 --> 01:15:48,020 that we didn't know and but but Nick 1778 01:15:52,380 --> 01:15:49,700 found him very eccentric I mean most 1779 01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:52,390 people did he was also look he was also 1780 01:15:57,670 --> 01:15:56,090 he look god I don't know how much I can 1781 01:16:01,240 --> 01:15:57,680 say he was apparently fairly 1782 01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:01,250 untrustworthy you you know he used to he 1783 01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:02,930 also used to record phone calls so he 1784 01:16:05,620 --> 01:16:04,370 would ring people and actually record 1785 01:16:09,970 --> 01:16:05,630 the phone call without permission he 1786 01:16:11,860 --> 01:16:09,980 apparently didn't yeah he was he also 1787 01:16:13,980 --> 01:16:11,870 abrasive and very aggressive 1788 01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:13,990 somewhat yes he was very hyperactive 1789 01:16:19,209 --> 01:16:16,970 okay um well I I didn't want to mention 1790 01:16:21,250 --> 01:16:19,219 something about him 1791 01:16:23,319 --> 01:16:21,260 and that is and then I have a question 1792 01:16:25,660 --> 01:16:23,329 for you and that's it about that topic 1793 01:16:27,250 --> 01:16:25,670 but apparently a short film may have 1794 01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:27,260 been made about him called an ethologist 1795 01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:31,280 I think it was made by a gentleman by 1796 01:16:36,250 --> 01:16:34,130 the name of John Lundberg a 26 minute 1797 01:16:39,489 --> 01:16:36,260 documentary which was first broadcast on 1798 01:16:41,649 --> 01:16:39,499 BBC in 2004 what what are your thoughts 1799 01:16:44,919 --> 01:16:41,659 on that and then also wanted to ask you 1800 01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:44,929 again because III know you got caught up 1801 01:16:53,489 --> 01:16:48,050 on other topics but where do you think 1802 01:16:57,549 --> 01:16:53,499 the archive of his UFO data went look I 1803 01:17:00,759 --> 01:16:57,559 I asked him look when I got his weird 1804 01:17:01,959 --> 01:17:00,769 email I wrote back to I wanted to try 1805 01:17:04,089 --> 01:17:01,969 and stay on topic I mean I didn't even 1806 01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:04,099 know what to say to it but I asked him 1807 01:17:09,250 --> 01:17:06,530 where his material went and he actually 1808 01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:09,260 told me that well this person if it was 1809 01:17:12,790 --> 01:17:10,610 a man which were in or not I'll never 1810 01:17:16,060 --> 01:17:12,800 know but this person told me that he 1811 01:17:19,209 --> 01:17:16,070 divided his UFO FILES up so be FOI 1812 01:17:20,229 --> 01:17:19,219 requests appeals sighting reports 1813 01:17:24,969 --> 01:17:20,239 whatever 1814 01:17:27,370 --> 01:17:24,979 he divided up between two universities 1815 01:17:29,290 --> 01:17:27,380 one in England and one in America and I 1816 01:17:31,689 --> 01:17:29,300 thought what the hell what the hell's 1817 01:17:34,719 --> 01:17:31,699 going on here and I thought okay which 1818 01:17:36,609 --> 01:17:34,729 University so even if this is true and 1819 01:17:37,779 --> 01:17:36,619 even if this person is actually a mammal 1820 01:17:39,489 --> 01:17:37,789 in Victorian I thought so 1821 01:17:41,859 --> 01:17:39,499 what universities has thousands of them 1822 01:17:43,719 --> 01:17:41,869 and why why would you do that and I 1823 01:17:45,580 --> 01:17:43,729 wrote back to him and I said you know 1824 01:17:46,719 --> 01:17:45,590 which universities which university in 1825 01:17:49,149 --> 01:17:46,729 England and which university in America 1826 01:17:51,279 --> 01:17:49,159 please never heard a reply never got a 1827 01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:51,289 response so I just don't know what's 1828 01:17:56,290 --> 01:17:54,650 going on but his material is would be 1829 01:17:58,930 --> 01:17:56,300 really important I mean I know some of 1830 01:18:01,299 --> 01:17:58,940 the FOI requests he did and got replies 1831 01:18:03,430 --> 01:18:01,309 to I know that he he was the first 1832 01:18:06,029 --> 01:18:03,440 person I know also to get a copy of what 1833 01:18:09,399 --> 01:18:06,039 we call the Joint Chiefs of Staff 1834 01:18:12,399 --> 01:18:09,409 operational reporting manual which 1835 01:18:14,169 --> 01:18:12,409 includes layouts or a synopsis of 1836 01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:14,179 operatory reporting which can be used 1837 01:18:19,180 --> 01:18:16,489 for UFOs so obviously right back in 1838 01:18:21,250 --> 01:18:19,190 nineteen that was in 1990 or so so back 1839 01:18:23,919 --> 01:18:21,260 in 1990 Armen Victorian had already 1840 01:18:26,410 --> 01:18:23,929 ascertained that I prep three reports 1841 01:18:28,569 --> 01:18:26,420 were being used to report UFOs over 1842 01:18:31,810 --> 01:18:28,579 military bases in the United States so I 1843 01:18:32,469 --> 01:18:31,820 mean I I discovered that independently 1844 01:18:34,299 --> 01:18:32,479 muscle 1845 01:18:35,859 --> 01:18:34,309 a few years ago and then I found out 1846 01:18:38,619 --> 01:18:35,869 that Armen had actually discovered it 1847 01:18:39,909 --> 01:18:38,629 you know 20 years before me so that mean 1848 01:18:41,619 --> 01:18:39,919 this guy's records will be really 1849 01:18:44,799 --> 01:18:41,629 important so where they are I don't know 1850 01:18:47,709 --> 01:18:44,809 I know it's my brother but yeah not only 1851 01:18:51,609 --> 01:18:47,719 that but it would probably be 1852 01:18:55,389 --> 01:18:51,619 interesting to pour over his a massive 1853 01:19:00,539 --> 01:18:55,399 archive of UFO information if he 1854 01:19:04,299 --> 01:19:00,549 actually was able to grab information 1855 01:19:06,039 --> 01:19:04,309 that was top-secret by a mistake like if 1856 01:19:07,689 --> 01:19:06,049 if the government actually sent it by 1857 01:19:12,729 --> 01:19:07,699 mistake classified material that would 1858 01:19:15,129 --> 01:19:12,739 be interesting to read and then also I'm 1859 01:19:16,839 --> 01:19:15,139 gonna assume it's possible since he was 1860 01:19:19,419 --> 01:19:16,849 in the position he was which was 1861 01:19:23,169 --> 01:19:19,429 possibly a spy that he may have had 1862 01:19:24,969 --> 01:19:23,179 access to intelligence related data that 1863 01:19:26,529 --> 01:19:24,979 might have been classified what do you 1864 01:19:30,009 --> 01:19:26,539 think about that I wouldn't be surprised 1865 01:19:33,099 --> 01:19:30,019 I would not be surprised at all does it 1866 01:19:35,459 --> 01:19:33,109 strike you as strange that a spy if he 1867 01:19:43,749 --> 01:19:35,469 was that would be filling out FOIA 1868 01:19:45,939 --> 01:19:43,759 requests anyone can anyone can fill out 1869 01:19:49,329 --> 01:19:45,949 for requests that's no problem 1870 01:19:54,039 --> 01:19:49,339 look I don't know you know look I don't 1871 01:19:56,889 --> 01:19:54,049 know yeah he just had a very strange 1872 01:19:58,599 --> 01:19:56,899 lifestyle anyway that mythologist movie 1873 01:20:01,149 --> 01:19:58,609 I was gonna ask you did you get a chance 1874 01:20:04,059 --> 01:20:01,159 to actually watch that documentary I've 1875 01:20:05,679 --> 01:20:04,069 never seen it I can't get I mean III I 1876 01:20:08,519 --> 01:20:05,689 don't know anyone who's got a copy I 1877 01:20:12,069 --> 01:20:08,529 would love a copy but I don't have one I 1878 01:20:14,589 --> 01:20:12,079 yeah I I don't know how accurate is I 1879 01:20:16,709 --> 01:20:14,599 mean it's it's it's it look I'd I've got 1880 01:20:19,329 --> 01:20:16,719 to look into it a bit more I want to ask 1881 01:20:20,709 --> 01:20:19,339 Lumbergh and I think it was also helped 1882 01:20:22,539 --> 01:20:20,719 along the documentary was helped along 1883 01:20:25,509 --> 01:20:22,549 by a guy called Marco Pendleton who is 1884 01:20:28,029 --> 01:20:25,519 quite a good writer I've got to I've got 1885 01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:28,039 to look into that further but you know 1886 01:20:32,799 --> 01:20:29,449 it's dead like dealing with smoke and 1887 01:20:34,389 --> 01:20:32,809 mirrors because you know like like it's 1888 01:20:36,039 --> 01:20:34,399 already hard enough that back then this 1889 01:20:38,379 --> 01:20:36,049 scar was quite mysterious so dealing 1890 01:20:40,779 --> 01:20:38,389 with him now or you know we just don't 1891 01:20:42,279 --> 01:20:40,789 know like I would love to I don't even 1892 01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:42,289 know how old he is you know like I don't 1893 01:20:47,230 --> 01:20:43,810 know 1894 01:20:48,790 --> 01:20:47,240 okay so we've exhausted that topic but I 1895 01:20:51,250 --> 01:20:48,800 do want to give a disclaimer to our 1896 01:20:54,820 --> 01:20:51,260 audience and that is I don't think the 1897 01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:54,830 possibility of anyone ever a come across 1898 01:20:58,540 --> 01:20:56,570 classified material is going to be very 1899 01:21:01,240 --> 01:20:58,550 often in their lifetime but if that 1900 01:21:04,060 --> 01:21:01,250 happens to you just remember there are 1901 01:21:08,230 --> 01:21:04,070 laws you will be prosecuted you cannot 1902 01:21:10,420 --> 01:21:08,240 publish information regarding that and I 1903 01:21:12,250 --> 01:21:10,430 know it sounds a little square to say 1904 01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:12,260 but if you come across any classified 1905 01:21:19,620 --> 01:21:15,410 material you need to report it to proper 1906 01:21:21,670 --> 01:21:19,630 US agency immediately yeah so anyway I 1907 01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:21,680 wanted to really thank you for having 1908 01:21:26,110 --> 01:21:24,290 gone over that interesting topic 1909 01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:26,120 regarding arm and he has very colorful 1910 01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:28,010 past and I may have missed it did you 1911 01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:31,850 say that he is deceased or not I mean if 1912 01:21:34,870 --> 01:21:33,410 the guy that was a mailing me is 1913 01:21:37,510 --> 01:21:34,880 actually I'm touring well then he's not 1914 01:21:39,970 --> 01:21:37,520 deceased but I mean if he is deceased I 1915 01:21:41,440 --> 01:21:39,980 don't know I suppose we haven't really 1916 01:21:43,900 --> 01:21:41,450 looked at death records or anything he 1917 01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:43,910 does have a brother basil basil God 1918 01:21:49,150 --> 01:21:47,090 dazzle as that adult in London I have 1919 01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:49,160 try think I tried to get answer him it 1920 01:21:52,420 --> 01:21:50,810 but his email address even his own email 1921 01:21:54,730 --> 01:21:52,430 address was 20 years old or something 1922 01:21:57,190 --> 01:21:54,740 but look I don't know if he's dead well 1923 01:21:59,530 --> 01:21:57,200 I don't know if anyone's listening and 1924 01:22:03,640 --> 01:21:59,540 they're in London or they have access to 1925 01:22:05,110 --> 01:22:03,650 being able to find out death records you 1926 01:22:08,670 --> 01:22:05,120 know in any of the countries we just 1927 01:22:11,260 --> 01:22:08,680 talked about please contact Paul Dean 1928 01:22:13,090 --> 01:22:11,270 he's easy to contact is there an email 1929 01:22:15,970 --> 01:22:13,100 that people can actually be allowed to 1930 01:22:19,290 --> 01:22:15,980 have on air too conscious of course of 1931 01:22:25,660 --> 01:22:19,300 course so it's all lowercase P J 1932 01:22:27,310 --> 01:22:25,670 underscore D be a n at hotmail.com yeah 1933 01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:27,320 and then also it's really important for 1934 01:22:34,570 --> 01:22:32,090 people to know that you are an avid and 1935 01:22:37,870 --> 01:22:34,580 active writer on the UFO topic and many 1936 01:22:39,790 --> 01:22:37,880 other topics you have UFOs - doc in fact 1937 01:22:41,700 --> 01:22:39,800 I'll just I'll just mention your website 1938 01:22:44,650 --> 01:22:41,710 it's UFOs documenting the evidence at 1939 01:22:46,030 --> 01:22:44,660 blogspot.com but let me just go ahead 1940 01:22:52,180 --> 01:22:46,040 say that URL better 1941 01:22:56,050 --> 01:22:52,190 it's UFOs - documenting - the - evidence 1942 01:22:58,900 --> 01:22:56,060 dot blog spot.com now easier 1943 01:23:01,810 --> 01:22:58,910 a way to find it is just type in UFOs 1944 01:23:04,630 --> 01:23:01,820 documenting the evidence with Paul 1945 01:23:05,980 --> 01:23:04,640 Dean's name after that after you click 1946 01:23:06,850 --> 01:23:05,990 search on Google and it'll come up 1947 01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:06,860 immediately 1948 01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:11,210 a 1 and you like that you went over 1949 01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:15,170 regarding the ballistic missile early 1950 01:23:21,730 --> 01:23:17,570 warning topic are you going to be 1951 01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:21,740 writing an article on that if so like as 1952 01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:23,210 soon as possible I've just got to finish 1953 01:23:27,460 --> 01:23:25,850 it I've got a got a yeah I've written a 1954 01:23:29,740 --> 01:23:27,470 very very lengthy article I've just got 1955 01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:29,750 to finish it it's it's a thousand words 1956 01:23:34,480 --> 01:23:32,570 already so yeah it's going to be it's 1957 01:23:37,750 --> 01:23:34,490 got a lot of material in there I've got 1958 01:23:38,340 --> 01:23:37,760 sadly there's one thing that is a 1959 01:23:41,140 --> 01:23:38,350 problem 1960 01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:41,150 is-is-is I've actually found that Old 1961 01:23:45,670 --> 01:23:43,730 Spice command records which which 1962 01:23:49,570 --> 01:23:45,680 include ballistic missile early warning 1963 01:23:51,820 --> 01:23:49,580 system records unfortunately they a 1964 01:23:57,720 --> 01:23:51,830 large amount of them has have been 1965 01:24:01,600 --> 01:23:57,730 destroyed and I've got some I've got the 1966 01:24:05,890 --> 01:24:01,610 rot in front of me I've got it as an 1967 01:24:08,230 --> 01:24:05,900 example I've got a a a USA an old you 1968 01:24:10,330 --> 01:24:08,240 were from I think looks from 1991 an old 1969 01:24:14,170 --> 01:24:10,340 US Air Force Directorate of information 1970 01:24:16,090 --> 01:24:14,180 management file which which explains the 1971 01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:16,100 National Archive the sort of Space 1972 01:24:19,420 --> 01:24:17,930 Surveillance and missile records that 1973 01:24:22,140 --> 01:24:19,430 they'll be destroying in the future and 1974 01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:22,150 not passing on and some of them include 1975 01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:24,770 missile warning records space object 1976 01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:26,810 identification recordings of special 1977 01:24:31,780 --> 01:24:29,690 interest whatever that is raw satellite 1978 01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:31,790 data used and similar record use for 1979 01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:33,890 trend analysis and anomaly resolution 1980 01:24:39,430 --> 01:24:36,650 and so on and so these are the sort of 1981 01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:39,440 records that even in the 1990s the US 1982 01:24:44,620 --> 01:24:42,770 Air Force wanted to destroy before you 1983 01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:44,630 know handing them over to more permanent 1984 01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:47,690 sites like the National Archives so that 1985 01:24:53,020 --> 01:24:49,610 that's a blow for if I were research but 1986 01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:53,030 so so but you know yeah I'll be writing 1987 01:24:58,360 --> 01:24:54,890 about all this you know I'll be 1988 01:25:00,370 --> 01:24:58,370 publishing all this very soon I want to 1989 01:25:02,430 --> 01:25:00,380 thank you for having talked about the 1990 01:25:05,230 --> 01:25:02,440 ballistic missile early warning topic 1991 01:25:09,250 --> 01:25:05,240 along with the space object 1992 01:25:10,050 --> 01:25:09,260 identification topic and the RAF flying 1993 01:25:12,750 --> 01:25:10,060 Dales 1994 01:25:15,510 --> 01:25:12,760 and the missile a warning mission and 1995 01:25:18,810 --> 01:25:15,520 the Space Surveillance mission and then 1996 01:25:21,540 --> 01:25:18,820 the Armen topic the armin victorian 1997 01:25:23,610 --> 01:25:21,550 topic and he has too many aliases to 1998 01:25:26,100 --> 01:25:23,620 mention here's but anyway it's been a 1999 01:25:28,140 --> 01:25:26,110 fascinating evening with you and we 2000 01:25:30,350 --> 01:25:28,150 always love having you on the show 2001 01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:30,360 now i wanted to mention to our listeners 2002 01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:33,130 one last thing before we go here and 2003 01:25:37,770 --> 01:25:35,770 paul has a few last things to say to 2004 01:25:41,340 --> 01:25:37,780 wrap up and that is tomorrow 2005 01:25:43,980 --> 01:25:41,350 we will be interviewing a close friends 2006 01:25:46,500 --> 01:25:43,990 of actually Paul Dean and those are 2007 01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:46,510 veteran UFO researchers Christian 2008 01:25:50,310 --> 01:25:48,490 Lambert who is a former investigator for 2009 01:25:52,140 --> 01:25:50,320 the center of UFO studies and a 2010 01:25:54,150 --> 01:25:52,150 contributor to the computer UFO network 2011 01:25:56,520 --> 01:25:54,160 he holds a degree in psychology from 2012 01:25:58,980 --> 01:25:56,530 Baylor University has worked extensively 2013 01:26:00,480 --> 01:25:58,990 in computer technology and Internet 2014 01:26:03,390 --> 01:26:00,490 services and has a background in graphic 2015 01:26:06,900 --> 01:26:03,400 arts and illustration and then also Jan 2016 01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:06,910 Aldrich since 1995 mr. Aldrich has 2017 01:26:12,750 --> 01:26:10,090 worked full-time in project 1947 which 2018 01:26:16,230 --> 01:26:12,760 is also a website additionally it's a 2019 01:26:18,630 --> 01:26:16,240 research effort funded by Koufos v4 and 2020 01:26:21,870 --> 01:26:18,640 MUFON now called the UFO research 2021 01:26:25,020 --> 01:26:21,880 coalition and mr. Aldrich has visited 2022 01:26:28,350 --> 01:26:25,030 over 150 libraries universities archives 2023 01:26:30,870 --> 01:26:28,360 museums and historical societies in 46 2024 01:26:33,210 --> 01:26:30,880 states and Canadian provinces and Jan 2025 01:26:46,379 --> 01:26:33,220 delved into the MUFON UFO FILES when he 2026 01:26:54,029 --> 01:26:46,389 visited sick ok 2027 01:26:56,850 --> 01:26:54,039 if yours will be having the constant 2028 01:27:01,169 --> 01:26:56,860 discussion within UFO circles of the FBI 2029 01:27:04,500 --> 01:27:01,179 and the CIA and the DIA and quasi 2030 01:27:07,919 --> 01:27:04,510 private organizations and you know even 2031 01:27:10,770 --> 01:27:07,929 to even to an extent some aspects of the 2032 01:27:13,199 --> 01:27:10,780 Air Force I think it fit forever why and 2033 01:27:16,790 --> 01:27:13,209 documents and history research is 2034 01:27:20,689 --> 01:27:16,800 becoming very very tired almost mythical 2035 01:27:23,459 --> 01:27:20,699 the exact places that we should be 2036 01:27:28,229 --> 01:27:23,469 harassing and studying and researching 2037 01:27:29,819 --> 01:27:28,239 and analyzing the frontline object 2038 01:27:31,199 --> 01:27:29,829 detection sites whether it's objects in 2039 01:27:33,870 --> 01:27:31,209 space or objects in the atmosphere 2040 01:27:36,679 --> 01:27:33,880 that's NORAD Air Force Space Command 2041 01:27:38,639 --> 01:27:36,689 including especially the 21st Space Wing 2042 01:27:44,549 --> 01:27:38,649 the ballistic missile early warning 2043 01:27:46,799 --> 01:27:44,559 sites the the Geo DSS sites the the 2044 01:27:48,359 --> 01:27:46,809 Naval Space Surveillance fence the air 2045 01:27:50,520 --> 01:27:48,369 traffic control towers of the joint 2046 01:27:52,229 --> 01:27:50,530 surveillance system it's these places 2047 01:27:56,339 --> 01:27:52,239 that actually look let's not forget here 2048 01:27:59,189 --> 01:27:56,349 they detect track identify unknown or 2049 01:28:02,159 --> 01:27:59,199 unusual or unexpected objects in the air 2050 01:28:04,830 --> 01:28:02,169 or in space I mean isn't that what this 2051 01:28:06,779 --> 01:28:04,840 is all about like like constantly 2052 01:28:09,060 --> 01:28:06,789 bashing on about how the FBI probably 2053 01:28:11,279 --> 01:28:09,070 you know monitor UFO researchers on a 2054 01:28:13,469 --> 01:28:11,289 fuzzy or the office of Air Force Special 2055 01:28:16,139 --> 01:28:13,479 Investigation are interfering with you 2056 01:28:18,419 --> 01:28:16,149 know UFO researchers and the big bad CIA 2057 01:28:21,299 --> 01:28:18,429 and it's secret UFO programs and all 2058 01:28:24,359 --> 01:28:21,309 this it's just it's it's like all this 2059 01:28:27,389 --> 01:28:24,369 time as each year goes on you know the 2060 01:28:30,029 --> 01:28:27,399 the the frontline air defense units and 2061 01:28:32,429 --> 01:28:30,039 the spy surveillance wings and squadrons 2062 01:28:35,850 --> 01:28:32,439 are if they are detecting what we call 2063 01:28:37,919 --> 01:28:35,860 UFOs they they're getting away with it 2064 01:28:40,259 --> 01:28:37,929 red-handed because we're not pressuring 2065 01:28:43,739 --> 01:28:40,269 them at all I mean nobody I know nobody 2066 01:28:45,479 --> 01:28:43,749 I know is like in a stroke with 2067 01:28:47,250 --> 01:28:45,489 Australian Defense Department all the US 2068 01:28:49,739 --> 01:28:47,260 Defense Department virtually no one I 2069 01:28:51,719 --> 01:28:49,749 know is well there's one person I know 2070 01:28:55,319 --> 01:28:51,729 my colleague David Carmichael but other 2071 01:28:59,390 --> 01:28:55,329 than him and me virtually no one I know 2072 01:29:02,530 --> 01:28:59,400 is consistently asking US Air Force wing 2073 01:29:05,810 --> 01:29:02,540 and squadrons or you know 2074 01:29:07,370 --> 01:29:05,820 NORTHCOM or Air Force Space Command or 2075 01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:07,380 what no one's asking them for the sort 2076 01:29:12,740 --> 01:29:09,450 of data and policy direction and plant 2077 01:29:14,450 --> 01:29:12,750 statements and special analysis reports 2078 01:29:15,890 --> 01:29:14,460 and capabilities no one's asking them 2079 01:29:17,570 --> 01:29:15,900 for the right documentation and even 2080 01:29:20,150 --> 01:29:17,580 when you can't ask them even when it's 2081 01:29:22,130 --> 01:29:20,160 classified or non-existent or whatever 2082 01:29:24,050 --> 01:29:22,140 look very few people are even reading 2083 01:29:26,900 --> 01:29:24,060 the history of atmospheric warning and 2084 01:29:28,730 --> 01:29:26,910 atmospheric detection and and space 2085 01:29:32,690 --> 01:29:28,740 warning and space objects it's it's a 2086 01:29:34,850 --> 01:29:32,700 very very complicated true but it does 2087 01:29:36,710 --> 01:29:34,860 frustrate me when I see people banging 2088 01:29:38,810 --> 01:29:36,720 on about you know the Army's Horton 2089 01:29:41,150 --> 01:29:38,820 Brothers or you know Betty and Barney 2090 01:29:42,470 --> 01:29:41,160 Hill abduction or whatever just banging 2091 01:29:44,930 --> 01:29:42,480 on for years and years and years 2092 01:29:47,330 --> 01:29:44,940 hypnotized by the CIA and absolutely 2093 01:29:49,700 --> 01:29:47,340 hypnotized by by you know the 2094 01:29:52,370 --> 01:29:49,710 president's secret UFO meetings and all 2095 01:29:54,950 --> 01:29:52,380 this this trash that seeps into the UFO 2096 01:29:56,930 --> 01:29:54,960 community like a poisoned eye 2097 01:29:59,480 --> 01:29:56,940 the and no one's no one's actually 2098 01:30:01,550 --> 01:29:59,490 asking the very agencies that have the 2099 01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:01,560 job of detecting UFOs that it baffles me 2100 01:30:10,370 --> 01:30:07,770 but anyway I just some advice I give 2101 01:30:12,440 --> 01:30:10,380 chant once in a while don't complain 2102 01:30:13,970 --> 01:30:12,450 about somebody else not doing something 2103 01:30:32,390 --> 01:30:13,980 because it gives you the opportunity to 2104 01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:32,400 do it holding has a fantastic point 2105 01:30:37,190 --> 01:30:34,650 there and also I think UFO researchers 2106 01:30:39,470 --> 01:30:37,200 should take heed of that point and 2107 01:30:42,020 --> 01:30:39,480 really understand that if they want to 2108 01:30:44,990 --> 01:30:42,030 pursue that topic the UFO topic as 2109 01:30:48,290 --> 01:30:45,000 aggressively and Dan in dedicated manner 2110 01:30:50,150 --> 01:30:48,300 as they strive to they need to really 2111 01:30:52,180 --> 01:30:50,160 understand what you just said and I'm 2112 01:30:58,430 --> 01:30:52,190 glad you emphasized that so thank you 2113 01:30:59,810 --> 01:30:58,440 okay we're having been on our show Paul 2114 01:31:02,920 --> 01:30:59,820 we look forward to having you more on 2115 01:31:04,070 --> 01:31:02,930 this year as we did last year so we 2116 01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:04,080 appreciate it 2117 01:31:10,700 --> 01:31:07,170 thank you okay 2118 01:31:11,670 --> 01:31:10,710 and thanks Paul and as Chant mentioned 2119 01:31:13,710 --> 01:31:11,680 we will be 2120 01:31:16,770 --> 01:31:13,720 back tomorrow where anything on the way 2121 01:31:18,390 --> 01:31:16,780 out there chant yeah I mentioned our 2122 01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:18,400 show I mentioned who we're gonna have on 2123 01:31:23,070 --> 01:31:20,770 Christian Lambright and Jen Aldridge 2124 01:31:24,690 --> 01:31:23,080 veteran UFO researchers I gave their 2125 01:31:26,820 --> 01:31:24,700 BIOS and that's it 2126 01:31:29,940 --> 01:31:26,830 so we're sorry that we just recorded 2127 01:31:31,620 --> 01:31:29,950 when is this show going online well it's 2128 01:31:40,490 --> 01:31:31,630 a we're still recording right now Paul I 2129 01:31:46,020 --> 01:31:43,260 we'll wrap up and the the process 2130 01:31:48,690 --> 01:31:46,030 usually goes we do the recording and 2131 01:31:51,060 --> 01:31:48,700 then usually takes a couple three hours 2132 01:31:52,530 --> 01:31:51,070 to upload and process right yeah and 2133 01:31:53,850 --> 01:31:52,540 that's a good question too because I get 2134 01:31:55,830 --> 01:31:53,860 that question from folks in the 2135 01:31:57,720 --> 01:31:55,840 community when I'm announcing a post 2136 01:31:59,580 --> 01:31:57,730 we're gonna do a show how long does it 2137 01:32:02,460 --> 01:31:59,590 take Frank's right he's the person who 2138 01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:02,470 does the publishing of the post the the 2139 01:32:08,700 --> 01:32:05,050 pot the talk show and that takes about 2140 01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:08,710 three or four hours okay it kind of 2141 01:32:12,150 --> 01:32:09,970 depends on the length of the show this 2142 01:32:14,100 --> 01:32:12,160 one was reasonable at an hour thirty so 2143 01:32:17,220 --> 01:32:14,110 good night everybody enjoy the rest of 2144 01:32:18,690 --> 01:32:17,230 your night enjoy your quarantine and we 2145 01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:18,700 will talk to you tomorrow because you're